4 ms·

Its not eating food that I have a problem with. Its choosing steaks, pork and beef when there is a huge amount of alternatives. The fact we are brought up like

Its not eating food that I have a problem with. Its choosing steaks, pork and beef when there is a huge amount of alternatives. The fact we are brought up like that and are hooked does not make it any better or morally sound. The fact that everyone is doing it makes it Ok in your eyes? Please explain. Everyone was a nazi in Germany at a certain point.

ironmagma 6y ago
It doesn’t make it OK, it just makes it bad and reasonable. If I’m in Nazi Germany and all my friends and family are Nazis, and my neighbor too, I’m going to think less of my neighbor but not exactly hold it against him as much as if there were 100 Nazis in the country and he was one. There’s reasons people have at that point for being Nazi, even though the thing is ultimately terrible. Group dynamics, which are more or less baked into our (epi)genetics, for one. In America we pretty much all get a pass for buying clothes, for instance, which has some considerable moral strings attached to it. We could make our own, but that’s just not a reasonable way to live life here. You would have no company if that was the way you chose to spend your time, so it would be a sad existence, and as humans we are wired to want to behave like those around us.
- joelbluminator 6y ago
  Well you kinda solidify my argument that we don't expect people to be moral, at least not 100% or not even 50%. We expect them not to break society's rules, and whatever capitalism allows - they can do, with no social stigma. We give each other a free pass because we know change is hard (is that the functioning of a society striving to be moral?) Now whatever capitalism allows - meat, unbridled consumerism, extreme selfishness etc, these are things with severe side effects. In the case of buying clothes the suffering is a bit more subtle (I suppose you refer to worker's conditions in poor countries), and since it's paying for someone's job somewhere you could argue it's in the grey area. But the meat industry isn't in the grey area, it couldn't be more black than it is.
  - ironmagma 6y ago
    I wouldn’t say it couldn’t be a grey area. For many, it’s easier to get fresh meat than it is to get fresh vegetables, such as if you’re a farmer in a food desert but you have livestock, or even if you’re just living in a place like Alaska where a lot does not grow. There are also dietary restrictions leading some people to need a higher than average or even entirely carnivorous diet. Bottom line is that while there may be morality inflation, i.e. when you judge the modern lifestyle on an absolute scale, it looks bad, that there is still a range of acceptability, and if you venture outside of it, that’s no bueno. That doesn’t mean we don’t expect people to be moral (100% would be “perfect”).

ironmagma 6y ago

It doesn’t make it OK, it just makes it bad and reasonable. If I’m in Nazi Germany and all my friends and family are Nazis, and my neighbor too, I’m going to think less of my neighbor but not exactly hold it against him as much as if there were 100 Nazis in the country and he was one. There’s reasons people have at that point for being Nazi, even though the thing is ultimately terrible. Group dynamics, which are more or less baked into our (epi)genetics, for one. In America we pretty much all get a pass for buying clothes, for instance, which has some considerable moral strings attached to it. We could make our own, but that’s just not a reasonable way to live life here. You would have no company if that was the way you chose to spend your time, so it would be a sad existence, and as humans we are wired to want to behave like those around us.

joelbluminator 6y ago
Well you kinda solidify my argument that we don't expect people to be moral, at least not 100% or not even 50%. We expect them not to break society's rules, and whatever capitalism allows - they can do, with no social stigma. We give each other a free pass because we know change is hard (is that the functioning of a society striving to be moral?) Now whatever capitalism allows - meat, unbridled consumerism, extreme selfishness etc, these are things with severe side effects. In the case of buying clothes the suffering is a bit more subtle (I suppose you refer to worker's conditions in poor countries), and since it's paying for someone's job somewhere you could argue it's in the grey area. But the meat industry isn't in the grey area, it couldn't be more black than it is.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  I wouldn’t say it couldn’t be a grey area. For many, it’s easier to get fresh meat than it is to get fresh vegetables, such as if you’re a farmer in a food desert but you have livestock, or even if you’re just living in a place like Alaska where a lot does not grow. There are also dietary restrictions leading some people to need a higher than average or even entirely carnivorous diet. Bottom line is that while there may be morality inflation, i.e. when you judge the modern lifestyle on an absolute scale, it looks bad, that there is still a range of acceptability, and if you venture outside of it, that’s no bueno. That doesn’t mean we don’t expect people to be moral (100% would be “perfect”).