4 ms·

The fix for this is simple. Appropriately size the battery when designing and manufacturing the device so that it is still capable of running the device a few y

by gpm 6y ago

The fix for this is simple. Appropriately size the battery when designing and manufacturing the device so that it is still capable of running the device a few years into it's lifetime, instead of a few months. The after the fact fix for this is also to not refuse to fix your defective devices when customers bring them in under warranty claims, and definitely to not lie about them not being defective. You don't make pay out the better part of a billion dollars in settlements and fines because you acted responsibly in a way that is hard to explain to consumers. You pay out a billion dollars in settlements because you broke the law.

epistasis 6y ago
Yikes, how many phones did this affect after only a few months? That's an entirely new thing that I hadn't heard before.
- gpm 6y ago
  Not sure in terms of numbers, you might be able to find it if you dug through the court documents. It's not a rare anecdote though, for instance see this comment currently slightly below this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122
- Bud 6y ago
  Approximately zero. And obviously, those would have been covered under warranty. The reason you haven't heard this before is that it didn't happen.
  - gpm 6y ago
    Apple did not consider "my (friends) phone has been throttled because of the battery" as sufficient cause to replace the battery under warranty.
  - darksaints 6y ago
    They weren't covered under my warranty.
    - jiggawatts 6y ago
      It was covered under my warranty. Either the warranty expired -- in which case it isn't a "few months", or it was within the warranty period, in which case it is covered.
      - darksaints 6y ago
        Nope. Less than 8 months old. Battery was too degraded to run as normal, but didn't pass the threshold for replacement. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122 But don't take my word for it. RTFA. This lawsuit was settled because of the exact scenario I described.
Spooky23 6y ago
I'm on year 3 of my iPhone 8, with 82% battery health. My total talk time is over 36 days, and I probably actively use it for non-talk tasks for 3-4 hours/day. In my experience, which included managing and oversight of the operations/budgets for BlackBerry, iPhone and Android fleets with 10-50k devices, early battery death is usually accounted for by poor environmental conditions like temperature extremes. The AFRs didn't change in my experience much at all over time, except that legacy BlackBerries would get battery replacements. The only outlier was failure rates for Samsung Galaxy phones, which was an operational issue (about 40% more failures if memory serves) -- NOT a defect or problem with the phone itself. They were mostly deployed to field workers operating out of cars or outdoors because Samsung allows a much broader operating range. Extreme cold especially would kick the crap out of the Samsung batteries, especially if they keeping them in outer pockets of winter coats or leaving them mounted to vehicles. Apple is conservative with battery management because the public perception cost of any battery issue is nuclear, as anything Apple is a headline. iPhones have strict shutdown temperatures for both cold and heat. (which make them useless in many outdoor work environments)
- gpm 6y ago
  The complaints here apply to iPhone 6, 6S, SE, and 7. So your iPhone 8 not having the same issue isn't really surprising. (Article that lists the models involved: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-with-states-for-113m-over-iphone-battery-throttling/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-wi...)
- SuperPaintMan 6y ago
  >iPhones have strict shutdown temperatures for both cold and heat. (which make them useless in many outdoor work environments) Absolutely, I'm in the middle of Saskatchewan where it can get down to -40 and this was my biggest gripe with some of my old iPhones. Weirdly enough my BlackBerries (including my Key2!) managed a bit better. Only major issue I noticed was that capacity would rise when coming into a warmer environ. The Titan seems to be faring pretty well so far this winter, but it also is more battery then phone. Was always funny walking in and having my phone restart, just to shutdown though.
- 6y ago

by gpm 6y ago

epistasis 6y ago

Yikes, how many phones did this affect after only a few months? That's an entirely new thing that I hadn't heard before.

gpm 6y ago
Not sure in terms of numbers, you might be able to find it if you dug through the court documents. It's not a rare anecdote though, for instance see this comment currently slightly below this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122
Bud 6y ago
Approximately zero. And obviously, those would have been covered under warranty. The reason you haven't heard this before is that it didn't happen.
- gpm 6y ago
  Apple did not consider "my (friends) phone has been throttled because of the battery" as sufficient cause to replace the battery under warranty.
- darksaints 6y ago
  They weren't covered under my warranty.
  - jiggawatts 6y ago
    It was covered under my warranty. Either the warranty expired -- in which case it isn't a "few months", or it was within the warranty period, in which case it is covered.
    - darksaints 6y ago
      Nope. Less than 8 months old. Battery was too degraded to run as normal, but didn't pass the threshold for replacement. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25144122 But don't take my word for it. RTFA. This lawsuit was settled because of the exact scenario I described.

Spooky23 6y ago

I'm on year 3 of my iPhone 8, with 82% battery health. My total talk time is over 36 days, and I probably actively use it for non-talk tasks for 3-4 hours/day. In my experience, which included managing and oversight of the operations/budgets for BlackBerry, iPhone and Android fleets with 10-50k devices, early battery death is usually accounted for by poor environmental conditions like temperature extremes. The AFRs didn't change in my experience much at all over time, except that legacy BlackBerries would get battery replacements. The only outlier was failure rates for Samsung Galaxy phones, which was an operational issue (about 40% more failures if memory serves) -- NOT a defect or problem with the phone itself. They were mostly deployed to field workers operating out of cars or outdoors because Samsung allows a much broader operating range. Extreme cold especially would kick the crap out of the Samsung batteries, especially if they keeping them in outer pockets of winter coats or leaving them mounted to vehicles. Apple is conservative with battery management because the public perception cost of any battery issue is nuclear, as anything Apple is a headline. iPhones have strict shutdown temperatures for both cold and heat. (which make them useless in many outdoor work environments)

gpm 6y ago
The complaints here apply to iPhone 6, 6S, SE, and 7. So your iPhone 8 not having the same issue isn't really surprising. (Article that lists the models involved: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-with-states-for-113m-over-iphone-battery-throttling/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/apple-settles-wi...)
SuperPaintMan 6y ago
>iPhones have strict shutdown temperatures for both cold and heat. (which make them useless in many outdoor work environments) Absolutely, I'm in the middle of Saskatchewan where it can get down to -40 and this was my biggest gripe with some of my old iPhones. Weirdly enough my BlackBerries (including my Key2!) managed a bit better. Only major issue I noticed was that capacity would rise when coming into a warmer environ. The Titan seems to be faring pretty well so far this winter, but it also is more battery then phone. Was always funny walking in and having my phone restart, just to shutdown though.
6y ago