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> It’s not just about hosting, they also provide basically the entire software stack you’re using. Pricing that is difficult but I don’t think it should be disr

> It’s not just about hosting, they also provide basically the entire software stack you’re using. Pricing that is difficult but I don’t think it should be disregarded. What if I don't want to use their "software stack"? Frankly, as developer, I'd rather spend my time developing than learning Apple specific ecosystem. Heck, React Native and Flutter do me just fine. Develop once and run everywhere. In the end what does that $99/year license get me? A fancy certificate to publish on their only app store?

jolux 6y ago
Those frameworks still depend on their APIs though.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  Because Apple requires them to. If I wanted to ship a PWA in a Firefox-based shell using no iOS-specific APIs other than required (rasterize using OpenGL ES + Skia, Mozilla's JS interpreter, etc) they wouldn't let me because I'm required to use their browser and JS runtime, among other things. And they've deprecated OpenGL, so now you have to use their custom graphics API too.
  - tesmar2 6y ago
    It’s their prerogative to force the issue. Switch to Android if they won’t listen to petitions.
    - tushonka 6y ago
      I got one better, add an extra "Apple Tax" to the apps on the app store.
  - jolux 6y ago
    I pay more for iPhones partially because the ecosystem is not yet fully crapped up with C++ programs with bad UIs, and I think Apple would argue this point too. You’re fully allowed to draw your UI with Metal though, and MoltenVK supports iOS. Many iOS games use almost no platform UI components.
    - kevingadd 6y ago
      Sure, but the argument becomes circular, doesn't it? They deserve X% because you use their APIs, and they force you to use their APIs. Congratulations? If it's so expensive to develop/maintain those APIs that they can't afford to part with them for less than 30%+cost of hardware, maybe they shouldn't require you to use them?
      - jolux 6y ago
        You’re not required to use them though, as I just explained. What you can’t do is write to memory and then execute it, because that’s a security risk.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        That's not a security risk, it's a "makes App Review potentially pointless" risk.
        jolux 6y ago
        How is it not a security risk?
        saagarjha 6y ago
        How is it one? It’s not like the ability to JIT magically lifts the platform sandbox.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Gawd, why do you want to inflict crappy web UI framework on an innocent iphone ?
valuearb 6y ago
React Native and Flutter are lowest common denominator frameworks that make for lousy apps. My experience was so bad that I no longer even respond to recruiters for companies using React Native. Apple should charge non-native apps a large premium to be on the store. They degrade every users experience.

jolux 6y ago

Those frameworks still depend on their APIs though.

kevingadd 6y ago
Because Apple requires them to. If I wanted to ship a PWA in a Firefox-based shell using no iOS-specific APIs other than required (rasterize using OpenGL ES + Skia, Mozilla's JS interpreter, etc) they wouldn't let me because I'm required to use their browser and JS runtime, among other things. And they've deprecated OpenGL, so now you have to use their custom graphics API too.
- tesmar2 6y ago
  It’s their prerogative to force the issue. Switch to Android if they won’t listen to petitions.
  - tushonka 6y ago
    I got one better, add an extra "Apple Tax" to the apps on the app store.
- jolux 6y ago
  I pay more for iPhones partially because the ecosystem is not yet fully crapped up with C++ programs with bad UIs, and I think Apple would argue this point too. You’re fully allowed to draw your UI with Metal though, and MoltenVK supports iOS. Many iOS games use almost no platform UI components.
  - kevingadd 6y ago
    Sure, but the argument becomes circular, doesn't it? They deserve X% because you use their APIs, and they force you to use their APIs. Congratulations? If it's so expensive to develop/maintain those APIs that they can't afford to part with them for less than 30%+cost of hardware, maybe they shouldn't require you to use them?
    - jolux 6y ago
      You’re not required to use them though, as I just explained. What you can’t do is write to memory and then execute it, because that’s a security risk.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        That's not a security risk, it's a "makes App Review potentially pointless" risk.
        jolux 6y ago
        How is it not a security risk?
        saagarjha 6y ago
        How is it one? It’s not like the ability to JIT magically lifts the platform sandbox.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Gawd, why do you want to inflict crappy web UI framework on an innocent iphone ?

valuearb 6y ago

React Native and Flutter are lowest common denominator frameworks that make for lousy apps. My experience was so bad that I no longer even respond to recruiters for companies using React Native. Apple should charge non-native apps a large premium to be on the store. They degrade every users experience.