7 ms·

That's not the literal definition of fascism but it's also Not Good(tm).

busterarm 6y ago
If you think that's the case, you don't know your history. It's exactly the tactic of Mussolini. Edit: And when he did it, most of the western world/press fawned on him and praised him as a genius until he went and allied himself with Hitler.
- ketzo 6y ago
  I mean, since this is an argument about semantics > a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader is the definition of fascism. This is a tool often deployed by fascists.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    And saying that something is "the (very) definition of" something is a colloquialism drawing comparison that dates back at least to James Madison and the Federalist Papers. No. 47, if you'd like to read it.
- eloff 6y ago
  That's still not how you use the word "literally". It is a technique used by fascist regimes, communist regimes, dictatorships (basically totalitarian regimes of all stripes.) It is a separate concept from fascism. EDIT downvoters seem to have weak English skills...
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  Regardless of whether or not that was a tactic of Mussolini, that is most definitely not the definition of fascism.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    You can wait to wake up to a totalitarian government biting you on the nose, but some of us remember that Mussolini was a journalist and rose to power in the media and don't want to let it get that far.
- JoshuaDavid 6y ago
  Fascism has a specific definition that is not just "whatever Mussolini did".
  - busterarm 6y ago
    Considering that the term itself comes from his movement, the "Fasces of Revolutionary Action", and that he coined the word fascism personally in 1919 (after the word "fascio"), I think at the very least he gets to be attributed the lions' share of it.
    - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
      Newton can be credited as being substantially the inventor of Newtonian Physics. That doesn't make alchemy a sub-field of Newtonian Physics, despite the fact that Newton wrote numerous treatises on alchemy.
      - busterarm 6y ago
        Or possibly that alchemy has nothing to do with motion and gravitation. Chemistry isn't a sub-field of Physics either.
        JoshuaDavid 6y ago
        Exactly.
        busterarm 6y ago
        No, we don't agree. He literally coined the term when talking about his movement. If anyone has claim to what the definition was, it's him. But history is written by the winners and I'm sure modern day fascists would like to distance themselves from that history as much as possible...and thus the term gets narrowed and redefined.
        nobody9999 6y ago
        >Chemistry isn't a sub-field of Physics either. Chemistry is just applied Physics. And yes, for all you mathematicians out there, Physics is just applied math. :)
- Koshkin 6y ago
  To be fair, Hitler himself was not universally recognized as a "bad guy" until, well, later.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    To be depressingly fair, Hitler was never (and is still not) universally recognized as a "bad guy".
teraku 6y ago
Yes, it's feudalism
- jml7c5 6y ago
  How?
  - teraku 6y ago
    Well the OP said: > We're seeing the teaming up of governments and giant corporations to control the narrative and tell people what's true and what isn't. And then he said it's facism. To which I say, no, it's feudalism: > Feudalism, also known as the feudal system, was a combination of the legal, economic, military, and cultural customs [...]. Broadly defined, it was a way of structuring society around relationships that were derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labor. [0] I don't get why people downvote me so much. It's basically a direct answer [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Yes, it's feudalism Its really, really not feudalism, which is highly de-centralized.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    I'm not so sure, I think if GP had expanded on it a little it's an interesting take. Multiple corporations (with their 'fiefdoms') is decentralised from government, in a similar manner to peers being decentralised from government (or the crown). You could either argue 'not as much so', or that 'corporate lobbying, unions, and party donations have a similar influence on policy'; regardless I think it's an interesting idea.
    - teraku 6y ago
      First of all this, but even in the very definition of feudalism it's feudalism: > Feudalism, also known as the feudal system, was a combination of the legal, economic, military, and cultural customs [...]. Broadly defined, it was a way of structuring society around relationships that were derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labor. [0] Don't really get all the downvotes. I could extend more on it, and explain my reasoning, but I feel like HN is too caught in this "tech moguls are saviors" and even if they weren't and they wouldn't be where they are, somebody else would be a bad actor. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism

If you think that's the case, you don't know your history. It's exactly the tactic of Mussolini. Edit: And when he did it, most of the western world/press fawned on him and praised him as a genius until he went and allied himself with Hitler.

ketzo 6y ago
I mean, since this is an argument about semantics > a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader is the definition of fascism. This is a tool often deployed by fascists.
- busterarm 6y ago
  And saying that something is "the (very) definition of" something is a colloquialism drawing comparison that dates back at least to James Madison and the Federalist Papers. No. 47, if you'd like to read it.
eloff 6y ago
That's still not how you use the word "literally". It is a technique used by fascist regimes, communist regimes, dictatorships (basically totalitarian regimes of all stripes.) It is a separate concept from fascism. EDIT downvoters seem to have weak English skills...
hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Regardless of whether or not that was a tactic of Mussolini, that is most definitely not the definition of fascism.
- busterarm 6y ago
  You can wait to wake up to a totalitarian government biting you on the nose, but some of us remember that Mussolini was a journalist and rose to power in the media and don't want to let it get that far.
JoshuaDavid 6y ago
Fascism has a specific definition that is not just "whatever Mussolini did".
- busterarm 6y ago
  Considering that the term itself comes from his movement, the "Fasces of Revolutionary Action", and that he coined the word fascism personally in 1919 (after the word "fascio"), I think at the very least he gets to be attributed the lions' share of it.
  - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
    Newton can be credited as being substantially the inventor of Newtonian Physics. That doesn't make alchemy a sub-field of Newtonian Physics, despite the fact that Newton wrote numerous treatises on alchemy.
    - busterarm 6y ago
      Or possibly that alchemy has nothing to do with motion and gravitation. Chemistry isn't a sub-field of Physics either.
      - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
        Exactly.
        busterarm 6y ago
        No, we don't agree. He literally coined the term when talking about his movement. If anyone has claim to what the definition was, it's him. But history is written by the winners and I'm sure modern day fascists would like to distance themselves from that history as much as possible...and thus the term gets narrowed and redefined.
      - nobody9999 6y ago
        >Chemistry isn't a sub-field of Physics either. Chemistry is just applied Physics. And yes, for all you mathematicians out there, Physics is just applied math. :)
Koshkin 6y ago
To be fair, Hitler himself was not universally recognized as a "bad guy" until, well, later.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  To be depressingly fair, Hitler was never (and is still not) universally recognized as a "bad guy".

teraku 6y ago

Yes, it's feudalism

jml7c5 6y ago
How?
- teraku 6y ago
  Well the OP said: > We're seeing the teaming up of governments and giant corporations to control the narrative and tell people what's true and what isn't. And then he said it's facism. To which I say, no, it's feudalism: > Feudalism, also known as the feudal system, was a combination of the legal, economic, military, and cultural customs [...]. Broadly defined, it was a way of structuring society around relationships that were derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labor. [0] I don't get why people downvote me so much. It's basically a direct answer [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Yes, it's feudalism Its really, really not feudalism, which is highly de-centralized.
- OJFord 6y ago
  I'm not so sure, I think if GP had expanded on it a little it's an interesting take. Multiple corporations (with their 'fiefdoms') is decentralised from government, in a similar manner to peers being decentralised from government (or the crown). You could either argue 'not as much so', or that 'corporate lobbying, unions, and party donations have a similar influence on policy'; regardless I think it's an interesting idea.
  - teraku 6y ago
    First of all this, but even in the very definition of feudalism it's feudalism: > Feudalism, also known as the feudal system, was a combination of the legal, economic, military, and cultural customs [...]. Broadly defined, it was a way of structuring society around relationships that were derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labor. [0] Don't really get all the downvotes. I could extend more on it, and explain my reasoning, but I feel like HN is too caught in this "tech moguls are saviors" and even if they weren't and they wouldn't be where they are, somebody else would be a bad actor. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism