4 ms·

Android's Achilles' Heel (for the rest of the world) - The Sim Toolkit

64 points by nicpottier 15y ago

bergie 15y ago
It is a shame none of the modern smartphones support SIM Toolkit applications. They're used for example in the M-Pesa mobile payments system that is popular in Africa and elsewhere. I wrote something about M-Pesa when I was in Kenya over the new year: http://www.qaiku.com/home/bergie/show/5035411811ce11e088577f7b44ee56fe56fe/ http://www.qaiku.com/home/bergie/show/5035411811ce11e088577f...
shareme 15y ago
There was a report recently about one set of android handsets accepting a SIM styled based facebook set of apps which I believed enabled by SIM toolkit and so someone somewhere has done some new sim toolkit support in android. Anybody remember the article well enough to remember the firm name?
- deadcyclo 15y ago
  I can confirm that HTC Desire running Android 2.2 has SIM toolkit.
tlear 15y ago
Funny thing that Blackberry used to have a great support for STK, then they broke it in the OS 6.
- bergie 15y ago
  This is probably because operators in the West never figured out anything useful to do with STK. You had crappy horoscope apps and the sort, not online identification or banking like in the developing countries.
jrockway 15y ago
If you want Android to be relevant anywhere apart from the West, then start thinking about how we live day to day. The point of Android is to sell search ads. So I don't think they want Android to be relevant anywhere but "the West". If you want to use Android and have it support your obscure legacy technology, bust out your IDE and start programming. If there is as much demand as you say, the money will flow right in.
- JoachimSchipper 15y ago
  Well, the handset makers seem to like world dominance. Also, I'm not sure userland access is enough for this kind of thing.
- nicpottier 15y ago
  This is an incredibly narrow view of the world. There are billions in China and India alone without even counting Africa. If you don't believe Google wants those eyes then you haven't been paying attention to how much effort they have been putting into Africa. And no, you can't build this stuff in userland. Everybody could go install Cyanogen on their handset, but that's obviously not tenable for the general consumer.
  - ravimc 15y ago
    If anyone in India and China needed this, they would have written it by now. This toolkit thingy is not used in India AFAIK
    - potatolicious 15y ago
      > "If anyone in India and China needed this, they would have written it by now. " This is a puzzling concept. If there's a need for a product, it would've already been created? By that definition, we should just shut down HN, since there is no more need for startups! Why waste our time here when every piece of software with significant demand has already been written by somebody else? Goofing around aside, there is a lot of Ameri-centricity in both iOS and Android. For one thing, I cannot believe Apple is shipping the iPhone in Japan without a QR code reader. The whole "translate it and ship it" attitude to globalizing products is a poor one, and explains why some scrappy locals can often take on big, cash-flush corporations.
dabeeeenster 15y ago
Does the Android SDK support everything you need to write the required application? Just write it!
- nicpottier 15y ago
  No.. you'd have to patch the OS itself.. you don't have access to the low level stuff needed unless you patch the OS directly.
metageek 15y ago
>Build a browser that does wire compression before sending it down http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2514020 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2514020 I don't know whether Android's browser is using SPDY yet, but it seems like an obvious step.
antonlitvinenko 15y ago
I am actually subscribed to Sim Toolkit request/issue in Android issue tracker and each week it gets about 1-2 new requests. (http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=15070 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=15070 and http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6666 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6666). And currently is not a single response from anybody representing Android team there. My personal problem with this is that in Estonia MobileID (fancy way to authenticate yourself and authorize transactions in banks, public services and other web services - advertised as a more secure way comparing to username/passwords and one time tokens) works through Sim Toolkit.

64 points by nicpottier 15y ago

It is a shame none of the modern smartphones support SIM Toolkit applications. They're used for example in the M-Pesa mobile payments system that is popular in Africa and elsewhere. I wrote something about M-Pesa when I was in Kenya over the new year: http://www.qaiku.com/home/bergie/show/5035411811ce11e088577f7b44ee56fe56fe/ http://www.qaiku.com/home/bergie/show/5035411811ce11e088577f...

shareme 15y ago

There was a report recently about one set of android handsets accepting a SIM styled based facebook set of apps which I believed enabled by SIM toolkit and so someone somewhere has done some new sim toolkit support in android. Anybody remember the article well enough to remember the firm name?

deadcyclo 15y ago
I can confirm that HTC Desire running Android 2.2 has SIM toolkit.

tlear 15y ago

Funny thing that Blackberry used to have a great support for STK, then they broke it in the OS 6.

bergie 15y ago
This is probably because operators in the West never figured out anything useful to do with STK. You had crappy horoscope apps and the sort, not online identification or banking like in the developing countries.

jrockway 15y ago

If you want Android to be relevant anywhere apart from the West, then start thinking about how we live day to day. The point of Android is to sell search ads. So I don't think they want Android to be relevant anywhere but "the West". If you want to use Android and have it support your obscure legacy technology, bust out your IDE and start programming. If there is as much demand as you say, the money will flow right in.

JoachimSchipper 15y ago
Well, the handset makers seem to like world dominance. Also, I'm not sure userland access is enough for this kind of thing.
nicpottier 15y ago
This is an incredibly narrow view of the world. There are billions in China and India alone without even counting Africa. If you don't believe Google wants those eyes then you haven't been paying attention to how much effort they have been putting into Africa. And no, you can't build this stuff in userland. Everybody could go install Cyanogen on their handset, but that's obviously not tenable for the general consumer.
- ravimc 15y ago
  If anyone in India and China needed this, they would have written it by now. This toolkit thingy is not used in India AFAIK
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    > "If anyone in India and China needed this, they would have written it by now. " This is a puzzling concept. If there's a need for a product, it would've already been created? By that definition, we should just shut down HN, since there is no more need for startups! Why waste our time here when every piece of software with significant demand has already been written by somebody else? Goofing around aside, there is a lot of Ameri-centricity in both iOS and Android. For one thing, I cannot believe Apple is shipping the iPhone in Japan without a QR code reader. The whole "translate it and ship it" attitude to globalizing products is a poor one, and explains why some scrappy locals can often take on big, cash-flush corporations.

dabeeeenster 15y ago

Does the Android SDK support everything you need to write the required application? Just write it!

nicpottier 15y ago
No.. you'd have to patch the OS itself.. you don't have access to the low level stuff needed unless you patch the OS directly.

metageek 15y ago

>Build a browser that does wire compression before sending it down http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2514020 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2514020 I don't know whether Android's browser is using SPDY yet, but it seems like an obvious step.

antonlitvinenko 15y ago

I am actually subscribed to Sim Toolkit request/issue in Android issue tracker and each week it gets about 1-2 new requests. (http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=15070 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=15070 and http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6666 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6666). And currently is not a single response from anybody representing Android team there. My personal problem with this is that in Estonia MobileID (fancy way to authenticate yourself and authorize transactions in banks, public services and other web services - advertised as a more secure way comparing to username/passwords and one time tokens) works through Sim Toolkit.