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> I don't know about the current state of voting software, but space shuttle software has a pretty good track record. Voting software isn't that. The current s

by shakna 6y ago

> I don't know about the current state of voting software, but space shuttle software has a pretty good track record. Voting software isn't that. The current state of voting software is best described as "horrifying". That's not to say it has been exploited, the only time that _may_ have happened _might_ be the Georgia, 2016, case, but as the evidence was destroyed, we have no answers. [1] Whilst this year's DefCon didn't go ahead, there are have been voting machines at several of the conferences in past years. Like last year, where vulnerabilities discovered in 2016 were still present. [0] The experts in the matter call for paper ballots. They are scalable, and far harder to compromise, by _several_ orders of magnitude. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/12/def-con-hackers-lawmakers-came-together-tackle-holes-election-security/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/12/def-con-h... [1] https://slate.com/technology/2017/10/georgia-destroyed-election-data-right-after-a-lawsuit-alleged-the-system-was-vulnerable.html https://slate.com/technology/2017/10/georgia-destroyed-elect...

throwaway894345 6y ago
Note that I agree with the experts, but the point I'm raising is that we could have space-shuttle grade voting software--the problem isn't technical but rather social, organizational, and political. That said, even space-shuttle grade voting software is probably not more secure than paper ballots.
- shakna 6y ago
  > the problem isn't technical but rather social, organizational, and political I would disagree with you here. The problem isn't social, or political. The problem is one of economics. It simply isn't in the interests of those manufacturing the voting machines to make them secure. They go unpunished for flaws, and it isn't legal, most of the time, for anyone to try and peak beneath the covers and see if there are flaws present. They have no incentive to make things secure, and can simply attack anyone who tries to look at their security, with a high degree of success. In a simple cost/benefit analysis, it is cheaper to ignore security. They will continue to get the government contracts, regardless of whether or not they are deemed to be more or less secure than their competition. Why would they bother?
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    I think we're actually in agreement, but saying the same thing two different ways. Notably, I consider "setting proper incentives" to be an organizational issue. Organizational issues of national and social significance are political and social issues pretty much by definition.

by shakna 6y ago

throwaway894345 6y ago

Note that I agree with the experts, but the point I'm raising is that we could have space-shuttle grade voting software--the problem isn't technical but rather social, organizational, and political. That said, even space-shuttle grade voting software is probably not more secure than paper ballots.

shakna 6y ago
> the problem isn't technical but rather social, organizational, and political I would disagree with you here. The problem isn't social, or political. The problem is one of economics. It simply isn't in the interests of those manufacturing the voting machines to make them secure. They go unpunished for flaws, and it isn't legal, most of the time, for anyone to try and peak beneath the covers and see if there are flaws present. They have no incentive to make things secure, and can simply attack anyone who tries to look at their security, with a high degree of success. In a simple cost/benefit analysis, it is cheaper to ignore security. They will continue to get the government contracts, regardless of whether or not they are deemed to be more or less secure than their competition. Why would they bother?
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  I think we're actually in agreement, but saying the same thing two different ways. Notably, I consider "setting proper incentives" to be an organizational issue. Organizational issues of national and social significance are political and social issues pretty much by definition.