4 ms·

It's funny that the only research he mentions is about the positive effects of drinking: > Research has shown a lower risk of ischaemic events (heart disease,

It's funny that the only research he mentions is about the positive effects of drinking: > Research has shown a lower risk of ischaemic events (heart disease, stroke and type 2 diabetes) among middle-aged and older, light-to-moderate drinkers. But the detrimental effects of alcohol far outweigh any potential protective benefits. An older person will get much greater health benefits from being physically active and eating healthy food than from alcohol. ... what? Someone should tell this guy that you can both have a drink and exercise. To paint it as a choice between the two is silly. > alcohol doesn’t just harm the drinker; it’s related to violence on the street and in the family. Having a glass of wine does not lead to "violence on the street and in the family" -- this is "War on Drugs" levels of disinformation.

treeman79 6y ago
Fun fact. My blood clots super easy. Genetic issue. (Factor 5) This is important. Also most of family going back at least 3 generations are alcoholics. For many years I had this weird sense that alcohol cleared up my head. But didn’t last long, and felt like crap later, so I almost never drink. Plus, watching family die young is good motivation to stay away. Eventually ended up on Blood thinners, wow. Brain fog gone in days. So I have a pet theory that the reason a lot of my extended family fell into alcoholism is because it was a way to manage the disease even though they didn’t know they had it.
- boringg 6y ago
  I feel like this is the kind of thing that medicine just misses completely. I like that kind of theory and I'm glad you've found relief.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Thanks! My second pet theory, is that a LOT of the keto/paleo/vegan etc diets are popular because of undiagnosed autoimmune conditions. Been reading through support groups for years now. A noticeable cohort of people find relief via diet. Sugar=bad, mostly. But even things like tomatoes sometimes need to go. Or conversely that the standard America Diet is so horrible, that if you have any possibility of an autoimmune condition, then diet will push you over the cliff.
    - qeternity 6y ago
      It’s not autoimmune. It’s inflammation. I have been eating LCHF for a decade now and it started with reading about eggs and cholesterol intake. Once I read about the drivers of serum cholesterol, and the interplay between glucose and insulin, it became pretty obvious that carbohydrates, in the quantities and concentrations that many people consume them, are genuinely poisonous.
      - boringg 6y ago
        Expand on drivers of serum cholesterol please...
        qeternity 6y ago
        BMI and glucose levels
groovy2shoes 6y ago
> Someone should tell this guy that you can both have a drink and exercise. To paint it as a choice between the two is silly. Indeed. I think I get the vast majority of my exercise whilst drunk. Back, knee, and mood problems that prove obstaculous to exercise due to pain and fatigue are surmounted with the energizing and lubricating effects of alcohol.
dundarious 6y ago
I think this might be a case of over-stating all the negatives, because the alcohol industry has done such a good job at promulgating the falsehood that “moderate” alcohol consumption is health _promoting_ — and of course drinking can be fun so people like to be validated in this way. I come from a heavy-drinking culture that is now promoting “Mediterranean-style” drinking habits as being a “healthy alternative” to binge-drinking. Maybe this is a good public health tactic, to push people to a “lesser evil”, but according to meta-analyses like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17478320/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17478320/, there really is no safe level for alcohol. And even a “lesser evil” approach can be applied while being honest — know that when you’re drinking, it should always be pure indulgence, not under some false pretense of getting resveratrol or some other nonsense. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25670722/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25670722/ provides something of an overview. Apropos of nothing, sci dash hub dot se.
- nostromo 6y ago
  Your link doesn't seem to support what you're saying. > Our meta-analytic results indicate that the few studies without this error (i.e., those that did not contaminate the abstainer category with occasional or former drinkers) show abstainers and "light" or "moderate" drinkers to be at equal risk for all-cause and CHD mortality. Equal risk, or in other words, there was no increase in mortality from light or moderate drinking.
  - dundarious 6y ago
    TL;DR I pointed at the wrong link for the "no safe level" claim. That quotation is from the first link, the meta-analysis "Moderate Alcohol Use and Reduced Mortality Risk: Systematic Error in Prospective Studies and New Hypotheses". It's a single piece of work focused on the "sick quitter" phenomenon, which only shows that light or "moderate" consumption is at best providing no benefit, as you say. This was the main thrust of my point -- it's not health-promoting. I did make a mistake and say that this meta-analysis justified a stronger claim though. I should have justified it using the second link. The second link is an editorial, "Alcohol’s evaporating health benefits: Industry lobbying and promotion are rife and unchecked by governments". It's more of an overview of many studies and meta-analyses, and is the reference I should have given for my claim of "no safe level". Choice quotation and it's reference. > A recent mendelian randomisation meta-analysis further concluded that “reductions of alcohol consumption, even for light to moderate drinkers, may be beneficial for cardiovascular health.” [16] > [16] Holmes MV, Dale CE, Zuccolo L, Silverwood RJ, Guo Y, Ye Z, et al. Association between alcohol and cardiovascular disease: Mendelian randomisation analysis based on individual participant data. BMJ 2014;349:g4164 CHD is the number one killer in the US.

treeman79 6y ago

Fun fact. My blood clots super easy. Genetic issue. (Factor 5) This is important. Also most of family going back at least 3 generations are alcoholics. For many years I had this weird sense that alcohol cleared up my head. But didn’t last long, and felt like crap later, so I almost never drink. Plus, watching family die young is good motivation to stay away. Eventually ended up on Blood thinners, wow. Brain fog gone in days. So I have a pet theory that the reason a lot of my extended family fell into alcoholism is because it was a way to manage the disease even though they didn’t know they had it.

boringg 6y ago
I feel like this is the kind of thing that medicine just misses completely. I like that kind of theory and I'm glad you've found relief.
- treeman79 6y ago
  Thanks! My second pet theory, is that a LOT of the keto/paleo/vegan etc diets are popular because of undiagnosed autoimmune conditions. Been reading through support groups for years now. A noticeable cohort of people find relief via diet. Sugar=bad, mostly. But even things like tomatoes sometimes need to go. Or conversely that the standard America Diet is so horrible, that if you have any possibility of an autoimmune condition, then diet will push you over the cliff.
  - qeternity 6y ago
    It’s not autoimmune. It’s inflammation. I have been eating LCHF for a decade now and it started with reading about eggs and cholesterol intake. Once I read about the drivers of serum cholesterol, and the interplay between glucose and insulin, it became pretty obvious that carbohydrates, in the quantities and concentrations that many people consume them, are genuinely poisonous.
    - boringg 6y ago
      Expand on drivers of serum cholesterol please...
      - qeternity 6y ago
        BMI and glucose levels

groovy2shoes 6y ago

> Someone should tell this guy that you can both have a drink and exercise. To paint it as a choice between the two is silly. Indeed. I think I get the vast majority of my exercise whilst drunk. Back, knee, and mood problems that prove obstaculous to exercise due to pain and fatigue are surmounted with the energizing and lubricating effects of alcohol.

dundarious 6y ago

I think this might be a case of over-stating all the negatives, because the alcohol industry has done such a good job at promulgating the falsehood that “moderate” alcohol consumption is health _promoting_ — and of course drinking can be fun so people like to be validated in this way. I come from a heavy-drinking culture that is now promoting “Mediterranean-style” drinking habits as being a “healthy alternative” to binge-drinking. Maybe this is a good public health tactic, to push people to a “lesser evil”, but according to meta-analyses like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17478320/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17478320/, there really is no safe level for alcohol. And even a “lesser evil” approach can be applied while being honest — know that when you’re drinking, it should always be pure indulgence, not under some false pretense of getting resveratrol or some other nonsense. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25670722/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25670722/ provides something of an overview. Apropos of nothing, sci dash hub dot se.

nostromo 6y ago
Your link doesn't seem to support what you're saying. > Our meta-analytic results indicate that the few studies without this error (i.e., those that did not contaminate the abstainer category with occasional or former drinkers) show abstainers and "light" or "moderate" drinkers to be at equal risk for all-cause and CHD mortality. Equal risk, or in other words, there was no increase in mortality from light or moderate drinking.
- dundarious 6y ago
  TL;DR I pointed at the wrong link for the "no safe level" claim. That quotation is from the first link, the meta-analysis "Moderate Alcohol Use and Reduced Mortality Risk: Systematic Error in Prospective Studies and New Hypotheses". It's a single piece of work focused on the "sick quitter" phenomenon, which only shows that light or "moderate" consumption is at best providing no benefit, as you say. This was the main thrust of my point -- it's not health-promoting. I did make a mistake and say that this meta-analysis justified a stronger claim though. I should have justified it using the second link. The second link is an editorial, "Alcohol’s evaporating health benefits: Industry lobbying and promotion are rife and unchecked by governments". It's more of an overview of many studies and meta-analyses, and is the reference I should have given for my claim of "no safe level". Choice quotation and it's reference. > A recent mendelian randomisation meta-analysis further concluded that “reductions of alcohol consumption, even for light to moderate drinkers, may be beneficial for cardiovascular health.” [16] > [16] Holmes MV, Dale CE, Zuccolo L, Silverwood RJ, Guo Y, Ye Z, et al. Association between alcohol and cardiovascular disease: Mendelian randomisation analysis based on individual participant data. BMJ 2014;349:g4164 CHD is the number one killer in the US.