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I've long believed that most programming jobs should be taught in an apprenticeship format - these bootcamps, overpriced CS programs, etc. just don't compare to

by jtdev 6y ago

I've long believed that most programming jobs should be taught in an apprenticeship format - these bootcamps, overpriced CS programs, etc. just don't compare to the learning that happens when you sit with an experienced developer and start to solve real problems. Lambda School seems to be a for profit organization that is primarily interested in making money, and this "Fellows" program is just an extension of that.

jessmartin 6y ago
We're also bought in on the apprenticeship model. This program represents an attempt to make the learning journey more apprenticeship-focused. Our incentives are totally aligned with the student. If we don't do a good job of preparing them to succeed as a dev, we go out of business.
- jtdev 6y ago
  In a true apprenticeship, the apprentice makes wages while learning the craft/trade - and the apprentice doesn't pay the organization that they apprentice under or through... An apprenticeship where the apprentice is required to pay 17% of their wages to the organization that merely coordinated the apprenticeship represents a continuation of the elite amassing wealth, while the working class are expected to pick up more and more of the tab.
- effingwewt 6y ago
  No your incentives couldn't be more mal-aligned from students and you have had this explained to you many times every time your pyramid scheme shows up on hn. You sell their ISAs as has also been discussed on every HN post about your 'school'. You steal almost 1/5 of a graduate's yearly income. You can put lipstick on that pig all you want, you can call it a duck, but its still a pig with lipstick. To quote snazz further up: >It's also worth mentioning that Lambda School has sold (or "financed") many of these ISAs to investors, so Lambda gets paid in advance of the student getting paid (even if it's technically a line of credit). >It's a nice idea to align the incentives of the school and student, but the current implementation doesn't do that if the school sells/finances ISAs so that they get paid before the student does. edit- spelling
  - brentoken 6y ago
    To quote my response to snazz's quote further up: > Thats not exactly how this works, financially speaking. > TL:DR the more successful Lambda is with placement, the more they get paid per ISA ("financed" or not). Incentives remain aligned, even if they get paid before the student does. > Debt is always "scored" before being sold off - which factors in to how much the debt ends up being sold for. > In this case, the scoring depends on how much gets paid back per ISA, which is subsequently determined by the placement success. Here's a couple of ways this _could_ happen: > • If the overall placement % goes up - so more debt (ISA's) is actually paid vs not paid (b/c conditions aren't met) > • If the avg. salary per placement increases - so more $ is actually paid per ISA (with respect to the $30k cap) > If Lambda can show success in placement, meaning more return is made on each ISA, then the ISA's will be "scored" higher. > As to whether or not they are sold upfront - thats a nonfactor to me. If Lambda doesn't do its job training and placing people, they don't make money. Either way this still holds true. > Also, all the financing could be happening and student STILL will "not pay any upfront tuition" and "won't pay until they are earning $50k" or more a year - as Lambda advertises. . I think the reason you _think_ this is a scam is that you _want_ it to be a scam. Perhaps to give you something to talk about on HN? I really don't know what your motives are. I imagine that if you spent some time talking to the actual customers, you would find out that this is providing opportunities to those who are not given them through college or an upfront bootcamp.

by jtdev 6y ago

jessmartin 6y ago

We're also bought in on the apprenticeship model. This program represents an attempt to make the learning journey more apprenticeship-focused. Our incentives are totally aligned with the student. If we don't do a good job of preparing them to succeed as a dev, we go out of business.

jtdev 6y ago
In a true apprenticeship, the apprentice makes wages while learning the craft/trade - and the apprentice doesn't pay the organization that they apprentice under or through... An apprenticeship where the apprentice is required to pay 17% of their wages to the organization that merely coordinated the apprenticeship represents a continuation of the elite amassing wealth, while the working class are expected to pick up more and more of the tab.
effingwewt 6y ago
No your incentives couldn't be more mal-aligned from students and you have had this explained to you many times every time your pyramid scheme shows up on hn. You sell their ISAs as has also been discussed on every HN post about your 'school'. You steal almost 1/5 of a graduate's yearly income. You can put lipstick on that pig all you want, you can call it a duck, but its still a pig with lipstick. To quote snazz further up: >It's also worth mentioning that Lambda School has sold (or "financed") many of these ISAs to investors, so Lambda gets paid in advance of the student getting paid (even if it's technically a line of credit). >It's a nice idea to align the incentives of the school and student, but the current implementation doesn't do that if the school sells/finances ISAs so that they get paid before the student does. edit- spelling
- brentoken 6y ago
  To quote my response to snazz's quote further up: > Thats not exactly how this works, financially speaking. > TL:DR the more successful Lambda is with placement, the more they get paid per ISA ("financed" or not). Incentives remain aligned, even if they get paid before the student does. > Debt is always "scored" before being sold off - which factors in to how much the debt ends up being sold for. > In this case, the scoring depends on how much gets paid back per ISA, which is subsequently determined by the placement success. Here's a couple of ways this _could_ happen: > • If the overall placement % goes up - so more debt (ISA's) is actually paid vs not paid (b/c conditions aren't met) > • If the avg. salary per placement increases - so more $ is actually paid per ISA (with respect to the $30k cap) > If Lambda can show success in placement, meaning more return is made on each ISA, then the ISA's will be "scored" higher. > As to whether or not they are sold upfront - thats a nonfactor to me. If Lambda doesn't do its job training and placing people, they don't make money. Either way this still holds true. > Also, all the financing could be happening and student STILL will "not pay any upfront tuition" and "won't pay until they are earning $50k" or more a year - as Lambda advertises. . I think the reason you _think_ this is a scam is that you _want_ it to be a scam. Perhaps to give you something to talk about on HN? I really don't know what your motives are. I imagine that if you spent some time talking to the actual customers, you would find out that this is providing opportunities to those who are not given them through college or an upfront bootcamp.