4 ms·

Wayland still not ready for daily use. Over last few years I tried it several times with Kubuntu and KDE Neon and every time stuck with issues latest of which w

by SXX 6y ago

Wayland still not ready for daily use. Over last few years I tried it several times with Kubuntu and KDE Neon and every time stuck with issues latest of which was impossibility to make Virt-viewer client work properly on 85Hz. Also some issues with hardware acceleration in Firefox, glitches in IDEA IDEs, etc. Also 3 monitors configuration sometimes end up messed up...

scaladev 6y ago
>Wayland still not ready for daily use .. KDE .. That's almost as much an over-generalization as saying "PC is not ready for daily use". Wayland is a protocol (or even a family of protocols), kwin is one specific compositor which implements it (and the implementation is still far from being complete from what I hear). I've been using a different compositor for about a year now, and I don't miss Xorg one bit.
pkulak 6y ago
Sucks to hear that I've been exclusively using a compositor that wasn't ready for the last 8 months. Sway is the best desktop computing experience I've ever had, "ready" or not.
- bch 6y ago
  Sadly sway seems very very Linux-centric. It depends on a device-enumerator that ships w systemd, which is quite an invasive prerequisite. I’m playing/hacking w swc[0] on NetBSD, and I’ve worked out my daily-driver, which to be clear, is actually fit for ~nobody in the grand scheme, because it’s essentially just multiplexing terminals. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4MTI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4MTI
- fluffything 6y ago
  No proper screen sharing through any mainstream videoconference application is a killer for work. (0) chromium doesn't support wayland yet, so it is blurry in HiDPI displays with scaling (chromium-dev does, but it has so many bugs it isn't even funny). As a consequence, all electron apps end up blurry... of which there are many. Same applies to all apps that don't support Wayland yet. For example, I spend 90% of my time using Emacs, and it is blurry on Sway if I enable HiDPI scaling. --- So sure. If you don't have a "modern" HiDPI monitor, and if you don't need to screen share often, and if you don't need to use chromium for work, or any App that doesn't support wayland yet, like all electron apps, Emacs, etc., or your work involves ML, or you want to game, or have an nvidia graphics card, which sway does not want to support (as opposed to gnome and kde), and you don't want to buy two GFX cards, or if you have to do screen sharing, or probably another dozen other things that most users need to do occasioanlly, or even every day. Then, and only then, Sway might be for you. But you can also use i3, where all this stuff just works. --- (0) I've seen people creating virtual webcams using OBS studio to capture their screen and share it as their "webcam" in videoconferences, but no mainstream software really supports this "as screen sharing", so the quality is quite bad, in a meeting with 10 people everyone needs to pick the webcam because the apps don't support this huge hack, etc.
  - pedrocr 6y ago
    All the things you mentioned are already fixed and most have had reasonable workarounds for a while. Some are still working their way through the distros so it's still a work in progress in places but it also has unique upsides from the Xorg experience.
    - StillBored 6y ago
      "unique upsides from the Xorg experience" Genuine question, from a users perspective what are they? The couple times I've used it, I ended up going back to xorg because it turned out something didn't work (intel integrated graphics) right. Its sorta become a habit now.
      - pedrocr 6y ago
        The biggest for me is actual tear-free rendering. All the different hacks in Xorg have never worked completely. The other one that people value a lot is HiDPI scaling done "well". Mixed fractional scaling in Xorg doesn't really work and it's finally possible to do it. Although there I actually think it's still a half step and Wayland made the wrong choice in how to implement it. It should have been done client side for more performance and less fuzzyness. There's a chance that will also be fixed in the future. Other than these it's a bunch of small things that are more technical than user-visible. Security is much improved for example. Some performance gains can be had from avoiding copying buffers. Etc.
      - fluffything 6y ago
        HiDPI displays is what I see mentioned the most. But when you then ask if fractional scaling works on Wayland, the answer is "yes, but it doesn't work for any app you actually use". If all you want to do is download a "demo" terminal, and put it in a HiDPI display, and enable fractional scaling, to show it to your friends, then yes, this works. If you want to get some work done on any app (a text editor, web browser, ...). Then its worse than Xorg at the moment.
        6y ago
tonyhb 6y ago
I use it daily and it's fine.

by SXX 6y ago

scaladev 6y ago

>Wayland still not ready for daily use .. KDE .. That's almost as much an over-generalization as saying "PC is not ready for daily use". Wayland is a protocol (or even a family of protocols), kwin is one specific compositor which implements it (and the implementation is still far from being complete from what I hear). I've been using a different compositor for about a year now, and I don't miss Xorg one bit.

pkulak 6y ago

Sucks to hear that I've been exclusively using a compositor that wasn't ready for the last 8 months. Sway is the best desktop computing experience I've ever had, "ready" or not.

bch 6y ago
Sadly sway seems very very Linux-centric. It depends on a device-enumerator that ships w systemd, which is quite an invasive prerequisite. I’m playing/hacking w swc[0] on NetBSD, and I’ve worked out my daily-driver, which to be clear, is actually fit for ~nobody in the grand scheme, because it’s essentially just multiplexing terminals. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4MTI https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU4MTI
fluffything 6y ago
No proper screen sharing through any mainstream videoconference application is a killer for work. (0) chromium doesn't support wayland yet, so it is blurry in HiDPI displays with scaling (chromium-dev does, but it has so many bugs it isn't even funny). As a consequence, all electron apps end up blurry... of which there are many. Same applies to all apps that don't support Wayland yet. For example, I spend 90% of my time using Emacs, and it is blurry on Sway if I enable HiDPI scaling. --- So sure. If you don't have a "modern" HiDPI monitor, and if you don't need to screen share often, and if you don't need to use chromium for work, or any App that doesn't support wayland yet, like all electron apps, Emacs, etc., or your work involves ML, or you want to game, or have an nvidia graphics card, which sway does not want to support (as opposed to gnome and kde), and you don't want to buy two GFX cards, or if you have to do screen sharing, or probably another dozen other things that most users need to do occasioanlly, or even every day. Then, and only then, Sway might be for you. But you can also use i3, where all this stuff just works. --- (0) I've seen people creating virtual webcams using OBS studio to capture their screen and share it as their "webcam" in videoconferences, but no mainstream software really supports this "as screen sharing", so the quality is quite bad, in a meeting with 10 people everyone needs to pick the webcam because the apps don't support this huge hack, etc.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  All the things you mentioned are already fixed and most have had reasonable workarounds for a while. Some are still working their way through the distros so it's still a work in progress in places but it also has unique upsides from the Xorg experience.
  - StillBored 6y ago
    "unique upsides from the Xorg experience" Genuine question, from a users perspective what are they? The couple times I've used it, I ended up going back to xorg because it turned out something didn't work (intel integrated graphics) right. Its sorta become a habit now.
    - pedrocr 6y ago
      The biggest for me is actual tear-free rendering. All the different hacks in Xorg have never worked completely. The other one that people value a lot is HiDPI scaling done "well". Mixed fractional scaling in Xorg doesn't really work and it's finally possible to do it. Although there I actually think it's still a half step and Wayland made the wrong choice in how to implement it. It should have been done client side for more performance and less fuzzyness. There's a chance that will also be fixed in the future. Other than these it's a bunch of small things that are more technical than user-visible. Security is much improved for example. Some performance gains can be had from avoiding copying buffers. Etc.
    - fluffything 6y ago
      HiDPI displays is what I see mentioned the most. But when you then ask if fractional scaling works on Wayland, the answer is "yes, but it doesn't work for any app you actually use". If all you want to do is download a "demo" terminal, and put it in a HiDPI display, and enable fractional scaling, to show it to your friends, then yes, this works. If you want to get some work done on any app (a text editor, web browser, ...). Then its worse than Xorg at the moment.
      - 6y ago

tonyhb 6y ago

I use it daily and it's fine.