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This may be controversial, but I don't believe an unborn fetus has any inherent value outside of whatever feelings of hope and excitement it elicits in the pare

by Tronno 6y ago

This may be controversial, but I don't believe an unborn fetus has any inherent value outside of whatever feelings of hope and excitement it elicits in the parents. If those feelings are instead of dread and anguish, it should be terminated for the benefit of all. The quote seems to imply there is value in the suffering of a disabled child and its parents - suffering for its own sake - which is absolutely horrific.

drno123 6y ago
And yet, people with Down’s syndrome are more happy than average person, so we cannot say that they suffer, and aborting baby with Down’s syndrome does not prevent baby suffering. I know that people with Down’s are more susceptible to certain illnesses but even with that they are happy. Source: my sister worked with peoplw with Downs.
jlkuester7 6y ago
> The quote seems to imply there is value in the suffering of a disabled child and its parents - suffering for its own sake - which is absolutely horrific. I think it would be more accurate to say that the quote is asserting that human life has great value _regardless_ of the amount of suffering involved. (Or put another way, the total value of someone's life is not a function of the amount of suffering they experience.) Certainly this is a challenging worldview since naturally everyone wants to avoid suffering (or at least avoid suffering that does not help them achieve some goal). But at the same time it is hard to make the general assertion that people who have suffered greatly would have been better of not existing. I am reminded of the story about Johannes Steinhoff [1], a German fighter pilot in WWII. Apparently after witnessing another pilot die horribly in a fire, he asked his friend to just kill him quickly if he ever ended up in a similar situation. As it turns out, Johannes was later a victim of a terrible explosion (even his eyelids were burned off). His friend literally drove to the hospital to shoot him and put him out of his misery, but was prevented from doing so by the medical staff. Johannes ended up recovering and went on to become a key player in the post-war German Air Force and the German Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee. I don't quite know what to think of this story because on one hand I would not wish his ordeal on my worst enemy. But, on the other hand, it is hard to say that anyone would have been "better off" if his friend had killed him. Life is often what we choose to make of it and it is impossible to avoid all suffering. It seems like the best we can do is play the hand that we are dealt and try to regard all things outside of our control with equanimity. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Steinhoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Steinhoff

by Tronno 6y ago

drno123 6y ago

And yet, people with Down’s syndrome are more happy than average person, so we cannot say that they suffer, and aborting baby with Down’s syndrome does not prevent baby suffering. I know that people with Down’s are more susceptible to certain illnesses but even with that they are happy. Source: my sister worked with peoplw with Downs.

jlkuester7 6y ago

> The quote seems to imply there is value in the suffering of a disabled child and its parents - suffering for its own sake - which is absolutely horrific. I think it would be more accurate to say that the quote is asserting that human life has great value _regardless_ of the amount of suffering involved. (Or put another way, the total value of someone's life is not a function of the amount of suffering they experience.) Certainly this is a challenging worldview since naturally everyone wants to avoid suffering (or at least avoid suffering that does not help them achieve some goal). But at the same time it is hard to make the general assertion that people who have suffered greatly would have been better of not existing. I am reminded of the story about Johannes Steinhoff [1], a German fighter pilot in WWII. Apparently after witnessing another pilot die horribly in a fire, he asked his friend to just kill him quickly if he ever ended up in a similar situation. As it turns out, Johannes was later a victim of a terrible explosion (even his eyelids were burned off). His friend literally drove to the hospital to shoot him and put him out of his misery, but was prevented from doing so by the medical staff. Johannes ended up recovering and went on to become a key player in the post-war German Air Force and the German Military Representative to the NATO Military Committee. I don't quite know what to think of this story because on one hand I would not wish his ordeal on my worst enemy. But, on the other hand, it is hard to say that anyone would have been "better off" if his friend had killed him. Life is often what we choose to make of it and it is impossible to avoid all suffering. It seems like the best we can do is play the hand that we are dealt and try to regard all things outside of our control with equanimity. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Steinhoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Steinhoff