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Interesting. My psychiatrist pointed out at one point that drinking can cause increased anxiety for several days. Ever since I’ve paid attention to it and she’s

Interesting. My psychiatrist pointed out at one point that drinking can cause increased anxiety for several days. Ever since I’ve paid attention to it and she’s definitely right - days where my anxiety is higher follows drinking 2-3 days before. If I can notice it after one night out, it doesn’t surprise me that long term the two could be highly linked.

DenisM 6y ago
Perhaps you're just more likely to drink if you're already anxious for some reason.
- zwkrt 6y ago
  It’s always strange when random Internet people pull the correlation versus causation card on an actual doctor.
  - ska 6y ago
    No opinion on this particular issue, but actual doctors mess up correlation vs. causation all the time. This shouldn't surprise; medical doctors generally are not scientists (although there are good scientists who are doctors).
    - zwkrt 6y ago
      > No opinion on this particular issue Perfect for a comment on Hacker News(TM)!
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  IANAD - but the explanation I ha e heard is there your brain compensates for the “slowing down” effect of alcohol by increasing brain activity. When alcohol is eliminated from the system, the brain activity level needs time to come down to baseline causing anxiety. This is also - I think - the mechanism that contributes to the deadly nature of alcohol withdrawal.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    Yes, I believe the technical term is "rebound effect" https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/alcohol_sleep_and_why_you/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/alcohol_sleep...
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  From my understanding after reading the research: + A big part of anxiety is a neutransmitter called GABA which is tied to stress control (GABA is a cortisol antagonist). Less GABA is typically associated with more anxiety and stress. + Alcohol acts like a fake version of GABA, giving you temporary euphoria and calmness when you drink. + In being a faux GABA, it fills all your GABA receptors and your body stops producing more GABA, thinking it's already full up. + Having less GABA and no longer consuming alcohol, you feel anxious. + Eventually your body produces normal amounts of GABA again (in healthy people) What initiates the drinking can of course be chasing that GABA-ergic feeling to begin with, and this may be part of the mechanism of alcohol abuse. Ultimately this can be a spiral of behavior where having an anxious day makes you want to drink to "calm down", which in turn makes the anxiety worse the next day, on and on.
  - datavirtue 6y ago
    Yeah...this
  - DenisM 6y ago
    > having an anxious day makes you want to drink to "calm down", which in turn makes the anxiety worse the next day, on and on That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Thanks for spelling it out, and with details. I've come to suspect that most persistent problems have a feedback loop in them. The curse of the loop is that it sustains itself, the blessing is that weakening the loop will in turn weaken it some more.
    - kodah 6y ago
      That lines up with my experience. I drank in college and I certainly had started to develop anxiety by then. By the time I was in the service that drinking scaled to a handle or a thirty rack a day. Post-service I eventually quit drinking completely. It took a while, but I did it. The anxiety has never gone away but it's not as crippling as it was when I was drinking. CBT really helps at least manage the symptoms and when I feel like I'm breaking down I can at least manage to slowly walk myself back. Having friends who aren't annoyed by the symptoms and are bold enough to walk you through those days is life-saving as well.
RobertoG 6y ago
I don't know about anxiety, but it totally affects (for the worse) my sleep. What, I suppose, would make more anxious too.
throwaway189262 6y ago
> Ever since I’ve paid attention to it and she’s definitely right - days where my anxiety is higher follows drinking 2-3 days before. Yup I've noticed this as well. At first I thought I was drinking too often, so I didn't drink at all for ~3 months and tried again. Same thing. I'm "hungover" for a day and more anxious than usual for 1-2 days after that. I've made a point to only drink anything on Friday now to avoid anxiety at work
- kerng 6y ago
  I think alcohol supresses/alters your default state (gets you "high" so to speak). Then when you become sober things are back to normal - which initially is scary but one soon adjust to it again.
  - tyre 6y ago
    There is a difference between feeling anxious and going from high to normal. If you've suffered from anxiety, the difference is pretty clear. This isn't what they're describing.
    - kerng 6y ago
      Alcohol surpresses it - so maybe high was the wrong word, hence I put it in quotes- you are not high from alcohol, just numb I guess.
  - marzell 6y ago
    Alcohol is a CNS depressant. This doesn't mean it makes you feel 'depressed', but rather that it dulls some sensations, which can include anxiety (it may also cause mood swings that reverse this affect).. so yeah when it wears off, that anxiety or other thoughts/feelings that it helped avoid may come back even stronger.
  - jpeg_hero 6y ago
    with alcohol you can't create more happiness, you can only borrow it from the future.

DenisM 6y ago

Perhaps you're just more likely to drink if you're already anxious for some reason.

zwkrt 6y ago
It’s always strange when random Internet people pull the correlation versus causation card on an actual doctor.
- ska 6y ago
  No opinion on this particular issue, but actual doctors mess up correlation vs. causation all the time. This shouldn't surprise; medical doctors generally are not scientists (although there are good scientists who are doctors).
  - zwkrt 6y ago
    > No opinion on this particular issue Perfect for a comment on Hacker News(TM)!
germinalphrase 6y ago
IANAD - but the explanation I ha e heard is there your brain compensates for the “slowing down” effect of alcohol by increasing brain activity. When alcohol is eliminated from the system, the brain activity level needs time to come down to baseline causing anxiety. This is also - I think - the mechanism that contributes to the deadly nature of alcohol withdrawal.
- DenisM 6y ago
  Yes, I believe the technical term is "rebound effect" https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/alcohol_sleep_and_why_you/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/alcohol_sleep...
vorpalhex 6y ago
From my understanding after reading the research: + A big part of anxiety is a neutransmitter called GABA which is tied to stress control (GABA is a cortisol antagonist). Less GABA is typically associated with more anxiety and stress. + Alcohol acts like a fake version of GABA, giving you temporary euphoria and calmness when you drink. + In being a faux GABA, it fills all your GABA receptors and your body stops producing more GABA, thinking it's already full up. + Having less GABA and no longer consuming alcohol, you feel anxious. + Eventually your body produces normal amounts of GABA again (in healthy people) What initiates the drinking can of course be chasing that GABA-ergic feeling to begin with, and this may be part of the mechanism of alcohol abuse. Ultimately this can be a spiral of behavior where having an anxious day makes you want to drink to "calm down", which in turn makes the anxiety worse the next day, on and on.
- datavirtue 6y ago
  Yeah...this
- DenisM 6y ago
  > having an anxious day makes you want to drink to "calm down", which in turn makes the anxiety worse the next day, on and on That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Thanks for spelling it out, and with details. I've come to suspect that most persistent problems have a feedback loop in them. The curse of the loop is that it sustains itself, the blessing is that weakening the loop will in turn weaken it some more.
  - kodah 6y ago
    That lines up with my experience. I drank in college and I certainly had started to develop anxiety by then. By the time I was in the service that drinking scaled to a handle or a thirty rack a day. Post-service I eventually quit drinking completely. It took a while, but I did it. The anxiety has never gone away but it's not as crippling as it was when I was drinking. CBT really helps at least manage the symptoms and when I feel like I'm breaking down I can at least manage to slowly walk myself back. Having friends who aren't annoyed by the symptoms and are bold enough to walk you through those days is life-saving as well.

RobertoG 6y ago

I don't know about anxiety, but it totally affects (for the worse) my sleep. What, I suppose, would make more anxious too.

throwaway189262 6y ago

> Ever since I’ve paid attention to it and she’s definitely right - days where my anxiety is higher follows drinking 2-3 days before. Yup I've noticed this as well. At first I thought I was drinking too often, so I didn't drink at all for ~3 months and tried again. Same thing. I'm "hungover" for a day and more anxious than usual for 1-2 days after that. I've made a point to only drink anything on Friday now to avoid anxiety at work

kerng 6y ago
I think alcohol supresses/alters your default state (gets you "high" so to speak). Then when you become sober things are back to normal - which initially is scary but one soon adjust to it again.
- tyre 6y ago
  There is a difference between feeling anxious and going from high to normal. If you've suffered from anxiety, the difference is pretty clear. This isn't what they're describing.
  - kerng 6y ago
    Alcohol surpresses it - so maybe high was the wrong word, hence I put it in quotes- you are not high from alcohol, just numb I guess.
- marzell 6y ago
  Alcohol is a CNS depressant. This doesn't mean it makes you feel 'depressed', but rather that it dulls some sensations, which can include anxiety (it may also cause mood swings that reverse this affect).. so yeah when it wears off, that anxiety or other thoughts/feelings that it helped avoid may come back even stronger.
- jpeg_hero 6y ago
  with alcohol you can't create more happiness, you can only borrow it from the future.