5 ms·

Do people do this in the winter as well?

by 0x1F8B 6y ago

ThePadawan 6y ago
Yes! You'd be surprised how little it changes room temperature. A lot of the thermal mass is conserved in the walls, furniture and people in the building.
- heffer 6y ago
  This is true in Germany, where most in-home heating systems use radiant heat. I have since moved to Canada and my house uses forced air and a gas furnace. I can still feel cold at 21.5°C in my forced air heated house which I never did in Germany. Radiant heat does a much better job of heating the things in your house than forced air will. Heating things, and not just the air, is what has them store that warmth across Stoßlüften-Sessions. So technically, Stoßlüften works well with radiant heated homes, less so with forced air heated homes.
  - ThePadawan 6y ago
    That's true! I was also thinking about how German houses also tend to have relatively thick and non-wooden walls (since compared to the US, there's no significant earthquake risk). That adds a lot of thermal mass as well.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    Is it much more likely that there is a difference in how your thermostat is placed or there was better insulation (so that heat ends up more even).
    - war1025 6y ago
      Over the past few years I've been working on improving the thermal efficiency of our house, which has mainly been strategic air sealing / adding insulation. One thing I've definitely noticed is that as I improve the insulation in one area of the house, other areas will get colder. The reasoning is that the worst insulated spots in my house were near to the thermostat. Now they they can maintain heat decently, the further way areas are allowed to cool more before the heat kicks on. The first tool someone should buy when investigating the thermal efficiency of their house is one of the cheap ($30- $50 if I remember right) infrared thermometers. The temperature of your house is likely 5-10F off from what your thermostat claims, particularly the further you get from the thermostat.
      - CyberDildonics 6y ago
        Exactly, you can even get infrared thermometers for less now that they are being used to take people's temperatures when they enter a business.
      - skoskie 6y ago
        Meanwhile, I can feel an outside gust of cold wind from the middle of my home. I don’t begin to know where to start.
        war1025 6y ago
        The biggest issue in my house ended up being that the builders didn't bother to insulate or air-seal the subfloor areas (the space between the floor of one level and the ceiling of the level below). Found that out the hard way when three years ago during our first Winter here, the water to the kitchen was frozen for most of the month of January. Thankfully our house has PEX piping, so no burst pipes for us. Sealing and insulating those areas has made a tremendous difference, even in the interior areas of the house. Since the subfloor is wide open, a cold breeze from one spot can suck the heat out of the entire floor with surprising effectiveness.
        ggcdn 6y ago
        Perhaps I misunderstood your description of subfloor, but I don’t think it’s common anywhere to insulate between interior floors or walls.
        war1025 6y ago
        I mean the exterior walls of our house were completely uninsulated in the subfloor area. You're correct that it doesn't make sense to insulate between floors, but you do need to insulate the entire exterior wall area, which includes the wall space between floors.
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  It changes the perceived room temperature even less than actual temperature! As you say, air has little mass and very little thermal mass, solids have a lot more thermal mass so the equalized temperature after briefly exchanging all the air for cold air is basically the same as the original. But physiologically and psychologically, human comfort levels are based not on the air temperature and convection or conduction with the air but on the mean radiant temperature, the temperature of an ideal enclosure of uniform emissivity and temperature that creates the same radiant heat transfer rates as whatever non-uniform surfaces are in the area. Sit with your face in a sunbeam in a cold house, and you'll feel like it's pleasantly warm even if the heating of the sunbeam is doing less than the motion of cold air wicking away heat. Open your garage door on a still winter day, standing in the warm air with one wall removed, exposing you to sub-freezing temperatures, and you'll feel cold even if the air is still warm. Stand in the high-temp air blast of a torpedo heater in a cold shop, with the ceiling, concrete floor, walls, and other equipment still frigid, and you'll feel cold even as the hot air melts the plastic bits on your clothes. Blast the AC in a hot car, and you might be breathing air at 40F/5C from the vents, but you'll still feel hot until the vehicle interior trim is cooled by the air.

Do people do this in the winter as well?

by 0x1F8B 6y ago

Do people do this in the winter as well?

Yes! You'd be surprised how little it changes room temperature. A lot of the thermal mass is conserved in the walls, furniture and people in the building.

heffer 6y ago
This is true in Germany, where most in-home heating systems use radiant heat. I have since moved to Canada and my house uses forced air and a gas furnace. I can still feel cold at 21.5°C in my forced air heated house which I never did in Germany. Radiant heat does a much better job of heating the things in your house than forced air will. Heating things, and not just the air, is what has them store that warmth across Stoßlüften-Sessions. So technically, Stoßlüften works well with radiant heated homes, less so with forced air heated homes.
- ThePadawan 6y ago
  That's true! I was also thinking about how German houses also tend to have relatively thick and non-wooden walls (since compared to the US, there's no significant earthquake risk). That adds a lot of thermal mass as well.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  Is it much more likely that there is a difference in how your thermostat is placed or there was better insulation (so that heat ends up more even).
  - war1025 6y ago
    Over the past few years I've been working on improving the thermal efficiency of our house, which has mainly been strategic air sealing / adding insulation. One thing I've definitely noticed is that as I improve the insulation in one area of the house, other areas will get colder. The reasoning is that the worst insulated spots in my house were near to the thermostat. Now they they can maintain heat decently, the further way areas are allowed to cool more before the heat kicks on. The first tool someone should buy when investigating the thermal efficiency of their house is one of the cheap ($30- $50 if I remember right) infrared thermometers. The temperature of your house is likely 5-10F off from what your thermostat claims, particularly the further you get from the thermostat.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      Exactly, you can even get infrared thermometers for less now that they are being used to take people's temperatures when they enter a business.
    - skoskie 6y ago
      Meanwhile, I can feel an outside gust of cold wind from the middle of my home. I don’t begin to know where to start.
      - war1025 6y ago
        The biggest issue in my house ended up being that the builders didn't bother to insulate or air-seal the subfloor areas (the space between the floor of one level and the ceiling of the level below). Found that out the hard way when three years ago during our first Winter here, the water to the kitchen was frozen for most of the month of January. Thankfully our house has PEX piping, so no burst pipes for us. Sealing and insulating those areas has made a tremendous difference, even in the interior areas of the house. Since the subfloor is wide open, a cold breeze from one spot can suck the heat out of the entire floor with surprising effectiveness.
        ggcdn 6y ago
        Perhaps I misunderstood your description of subfloor, but I don’t think it’s common anywhere to insulate between interior floors or walls.
        war1025 6y ago
        I mean the exterior walls of our house were completely uninsulated in the subfloor area. You're correct that it doesn't make sense to insulate between floors, but you do need to insulate the entire exterior wall area, which includes the wall space between floors.
LeifCarrotson 6y ago
It changes the perceived room temperature even less than actual temperature! As you say, air has little mass and very little thermal mass, solids have a lot more thermal mass so the equalized temperature after briefly exchanging all the air for cold air is basically the same as the original. But physiologically and psychologically, human comfort levels are based not on the air temperature and convection or conduction with the air but on the mean radiant temperature, the temperature of an ideal enclosure of uniform emissivity and temperature that creates the same radiant heat transfer rates as whatever non-uniform surfaces are in the area. Sit with your face in a sunbeam in a cold house, and you'll feel like it's pleasantly warm even if the heating of the sunbeam is doing less than the motion of cold air wicking away heat. Open your garage door on a still winter day, standing in the warm air with one wall removed, exposing you to sub-freezing temperatures, and you'll feel cold even if the air is still warm. Stand in the high-temp air blast of a torpedo heater in a cold shop, with the ceiling, concrete floor, walls, and other equipment still frigid, and you'll feel cold even as the hot air melts the plastic bits on your clothes. Blast the AC in a hot car, and you might be breathing air at 40F/5C from the vents, but you'll still feel hot until the vehicle interior trim is cooled by the air.