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> It's not exactly baseless since Apple actively opposes open computing. > They are slowly but surely moving towards not being apple to run anything not Apple

by DCKing 6y ago

> It's not exactly baseless since Apple actively opposes open computing. > They are slowly but surely moving towards not being apple to run anything not Apple on OSX as well. I would argue that both of these statements are completely baseless, and the second is actually actively argued against by Apple. I'll be the first to say that their handling of iOS things is horrible, and I would buy iPhones and iPads if they were a more open platform, but the world is more complicated than "Apple is evil" and their handling of iOS has no bearing on the Mac.

rowanG077 6y ago
I don't really care what they say themselves. They quite obviously continue to move OSX in that direction. First they made opening unsigned programs a little bit harder. Then they made it much harder. Now they don't allow any unsigned apps to run at all unless you opt-out at OSX install time. I really don't understand how you can believe this is not clear. Especially considering the iOS situation.
- DCKing 6y ago
  I believe it's not clear because Apple is set to gain nothing if they would move against "open computing", and only lose. iOS has not been an open computing platform since the start, and Apple appears to have trouble changing their backwards attitude there. There's no attitude to change on the Mac. Everything they've done on Mac nudges to strict defaults, but does not limit anyone (at best it improves security, at worst it annoys, but it does not fundamentally limit anyone). You can fully disable Gatekeeper with one Terminal command if those defaults annoy you. In my view you can only believe Apple will lock down the Mac if you somehow view them as an irrational ideological opponent, not simply a company that wants to make money by selling computers. Since you say you don't care what Apple themselves say towards this, I can't escape the impression that you might actually already view them in this way. If so, there's not much we can talk about.
  - rowanG077 6y ago
    I don't know why they want to lock it down. I don't understand why they lock down iOS either. I also don't know why they are moving further on locking down OSX over time. I'm only observing what they are doing and extrapolate. I don't care what they are saying because it's worth nothing. I rather watch their actions. I really would love nothing more then buy the new Apple Arm Macbook Pro but I can't risk investing in this ecosystem when, to me, it's quite obvious where Apple stands on this.
    - DCKing 6y ago
      If you don't know why they want to lock it down, if Apple says they don't want to lock it down, and Apple Silicon Macs show no further evidence of things being locked down (they're just different), then why do you still think it's so evident they will lock it down? I honestly get the impression you're caught up in some narrative that has very little substantiation, just a fear that macOS will become iOS. > I rather watch their actions. And which actions are those? Gatekeeper and the Apple T2 are not enough to make the Mac not an "open computing platform", let alone something close to iOS. I'd argue they're not even on the way there, just like Windows SmartScreen isn't on the way there. And note that the T2 is even gone from Apple Silicon Macs. Apple deserves all the added scrutiny in this area because of their attitude on iOS [1]. But there's absolutely no reason to believe that Apple's direction towards locking down Macs is either "clear" or "inevitable" in my view. [1]: There are some identifiable explanations as to why iOS is so locked down whereas the Mac isn't, but let's talk about that some other time.
      - internet_user 6y ago
        T2 has been rolled into M1. Not gone at all.
      - smaudet 6y ago
        If you want a reason, efficiency of maintenance and RD departments. If everything works exactly like iOS you save $$$$$$$, added benefits you can charge enterprise licensing fees to get access to your sdks and dev tools. And if you have e.g. a luxury market cornered you can command those sorts of prices. This is exactly Apple's playbook, I don't know why anyone would expect them to do anything different...

by DCKing 6y ago

rowanG077 6y ago

I don't really care what they say themselves. They quite obviously continue to move OSX in that direction. First they made opening unsigned programs a little bit harder. Then they made it much harder. Now they don't allow any unsigned apps to run at all unless you opt-out at OSX install time. I really don't understand how you can believe this is not clear. Especially considering the iOS situation.

DCKing 6y ago
I believe it's not clear because Apple is set to gain nothing if they would move against "open computing", and only lose. iOS has not been an open computing platform since the start, and Apple appears to have trouble changing their backwards attitude there. There's no attitude to change on the Mac. Everything they've done on Mac nudges to strict defaults, but does not limit anyone (at best it improves security, at worst it annoys, but it does not fundamentally limit anyone). You can fully disable Gatekeeper with one Terminal command if those defaults annoy you. In my view you can only believe Apple will lock down the Mac if you somehow view them as an irrational ideological opponent, not simply a company that wants to make money by selling computers. Since you say you don't care what Apple themselves say towards this, I can't escape the impression that you might actually already view them in this way. If so, there's not much we can talk about.
- rowanG077 6y ago
  I don't know why they want to lock it down. I don't understand why they lock down iOS either. I also don't know why they are moving further on locking down OSX over time. I'm only observing what they are doing and extrapolate. I don't care what they are saying because it's worth nothing. I rather watch their actions. I really would love nothing more then buy the new Apple Arm Macbook Pro but I can't risk investing in this ecosystem when, to me, it's quite obvious where Apple stands on this.
  - DCKing 6y ago
    If you don't know why they want to lock it down, if Apple says they don't want to lock it down, and Apple Silicon Macs show no further evidence of things being locked down (they're just different), then why do you still think it's so evident they will lock it down? I honestly get the impression you're caught up in some narrative that has very little substantiation, just a fear that macOS will become iOS. > I rather watch their actions. And which actions are those? Gatekeeper and the Apple T2 are not enough to make the Mac not an "open computing platform", let alone something close to iOS. I'd argue they're not even on the way there, just like Windows SmartScreen isn't on the way there. And note that the T2 is even gone from Apple Silicon Macs. Apple deserves all the added scrutiny in this area because of their attitude on iOS [1]. But there's absolutely no reason to believe that Apple's direction towards locking down Macs is either "clear" or "inevitable" in my view. [1]: There are some identifiable explanations as to why iOS is so locked down whereas the Mac isn't, but let's talk about that some other time.
    - internet_user 6y ago
      T2 has been rolled into M1. Not gone at all.
    - smaudet 6y ago
      If you want a reason, efficiency of maintenance and RD departments. If everything works exactly like iOS you save $$$$$$$, added benefits you can charge enterprise licensing fees to get access to your sdks and dev tools. And if you have e.g. a luxury market cornered you can command those sorts of prices. This is exactly Apple's playbook, I don't know why anyone would expect them to do anything different...