4 ms·

Actually, they are not. They only advise participants to get tested if they show symptoms. So it's possible that a bunch of people on the vaccine are getting as

Actually, they are not. They only advise participants to get tested if they show symptoms. So it's possible that a bunch of people on the vaccine are getting asymptomatic cases.

marricks 6y ago
Where did you get that info? I didn’t read it in the release. That’s not good though... really could but a kink in establishing herd immunity until everyone is actually vaccinated.
- chadash 6y ago
  Pfizer released the study design, available at https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-09/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol.pdf https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-09/C4591.... It's a long document, but it's in there.
  - marricks 6y ago
    Thank you!
- coldpie 6y ago
  My wife is in a different vaccine trial. For her they do a test monthly. They also do a blood draw where I would guess they are checking for antibodies, but I don't know. In addition, she reports in every single day with an app for symptom reporting.
  - virtuallynathan 6y ago
    That data may be collected in trials, but it isn’t always used for determining the primary outcome(s)
xster 6y ago
umm this seems non-ideal. I assume people want to be vaccinated against the damages covid causes, neurological, cardiovascular, etc, not just against the symptoms of covid.
- chadash 6y ago
  a) Those are symptoms too b) It's likely that it is protecting against those. But hard to specifically prove that it's protecting against each and every symptom. I think the hope is that if you don't develop lung issues, you are unlikely to develop long term damage.
  - xster 6y ago
    I was just responding to the GP regarding when candidates are tested. Sure they're symptoms. That'd be relevant if they were following the non-placebo group to test for long-term organ damages or other "symptoms" too. The easier way would be to consistently test all candidates for asymptomatic covid which isn't the case here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the data here. It seems like we've only directly proven that the vaccine has been effective at reducing the normal symptoms (coughs, fevers) to the point where candidates don't seem to be prompted enough to go get tested anymore. It doesn't directly prove those candidates didn't get covid.
- splaytreemap 6y ago
  I don't know how you expect these companies to prove their vaccine protects against asymptomatic long-term damage when nobody can prove asymptomatic long-term damage exists in the first place. It's like asking a home security company to prove their system keeps leprechauns out of the house.

Actually, they are not. They only advise participants to get tested if they show symptoms. So it's possible that a bunch of people on the vaccine are getting asymptomatic cases.

marricks 6y ago

Where did you get that info? I didn’t read it in the release. That’s not good though... really could but a kink in establishing herd immunity until everyone is actually vaccinated.

chadash 6y ago
Pfizer released the study design, available at https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-09/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol.pdf https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-09/C4591.... It's a long document, but it's in there.
- marricks 6y ago
  Thank you!
coldpie 6y ago
My wife is in a different vaccine trial. For her they do a test monthly. They also do a blood draw where I would guess they are checking for antibodies, but I don't know. In addition, she reports in every single day with an app for symptom reporting.
- virtuallynathan 6y ago
  That data may be collected in trials, but it isn’t always used for determining the primary outcome(s)

xster 6y ago

umm this seems non-ideal. I assume people want to be vaccinated against the damages covid causes, neurological, cardiovascular, etc, not just against the symptoms of covid.

chadash 6y ago
a) Those are symptoms too b) It's likely that it is protecting against those. But hard to specifically prove that it's protecting against each and every symptom. I think the hope is that if you don't develop lung issues, you are unlikely to develop long term damage.
- xster 6y ago
  I was just responding to the GP regarding when candidates are tested. Sure they're symptoms. That'd be relevant if they were following the non-placebo group to test for long-term organ damages or other "symptoms" too. The easier way would be to consistently test all candidates for asymptomatic covid which isn't the case here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the data here. It seems like we've only directly proven that the vaccine has been effective at reducing the normal symptoms (coughs, fevers) to the point where candidates don't seem to be prompted enough to go get tested anymore. It doesn't directly prove those candidates didn't get covid.
splaytreemap 6y ago
I don't know how you expect these companies to prove their vaccine protects against asymptomatic long-term damage when nobody can prove asymptomatic long-term damage exists in the first place. It's like asking a home security company to prove their system keeps leprechauns out of the house.