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What is seeking? Is it trying to get more pain meds to primarily fuel addiction/ selling? Or is it seeking attention and so can be ignored? Would they be a see

What is seeking? Is it trying to get more pain meds to primarily fuel addiction/ selling? Or is it seeking attention and so can be ignored? Would they be a seeker if they took home the meds and not actually take them? The drs would then think "why more pain med, they are already on some?" or of they didn't accept and take home the meds from the drs? So then the drs would think when they return "they are here asking for more help when they rejected the help we gave them before, are they seeking attention?" Perhaps it means something else?

csharptwdec19 6y ago
'Seeking' in this case is trying to get pain meds. > Would they be a seeker if they took home the meds and not actually take them? The drs would then think "why more pain med, they are already on some?" No, that's not seeker behavior. An 'extreme' example of seeker behavior would be to take the pills home, and try to come up with the best excuse possible to have 'lost' them. > or of they didn't accept and take home the meds from the drs? This is the scenario I'm talking about more. The problem is, if the patient comes back, depending on where the patient went, they might not get the same doctor as before (Thinking scenarios like urgent Care, ER, etc). And when you are in a lot of pain, you might not always think/act rationally. Ironically your desire to deal with immediate severe pain could in fact look from the outside as someone going through withdrawls.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  Ahh I see! Thanks for the clarification.
salawat 6y ago
A seeker is someone without a legitimate reason or medical history nevertheless trying to get their hands on prescriptions for controlled substances. It's annoying as hell, because if you make the unfortunate mistake of associating with an onverly nervous doctor and you're on a controlled substance, it can lead to a life ruining adjustment of your dosage. (Happened to me right after a job loss.) Showing up with a 20 odd year file of history of successful treatment history on something helps, but you still have to be hyper vigilant about finding a prescriber willing to work with you without being flaky. Yoy can't even think of moving or long term visitation somewhere unless you're made of enough money to do some recon work ahead of time to find a doc at a new location, or return wherever your old one is for the interim to top up fill your prescriptions. As a person with a valid medical justification, I'm basically already in a gilded prison created by DEA where I have to essentially mother-may-I either the insurance company or physician anytime I want or need to relocate for more than 30 days. And God help you with tolerance built up. Then you're adding a new monthly family member unless you figure out how to nutritionally supplement for your particular body chem to get around it. I will shed no tears over massive fefunding of DEA or restriction of their Draconian scope, but I have the feeling I'll never see it, because there is too much self-destructive potential and black market incentuve for illegal trade to ever become small enough without an organization putting pressure on it. That may be some level of Stockholm Syndrome talking though, as I'm not sure I don't just tell myself that to keep myself from wasting my time shouting into the wind.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  Yes I see how getting that label can be life ruining! Thanks for clarifying. Are doctors by default nervous about this? Can't they share your file between them? (I'm in Europe, so my experience is different, sorry I don't know these basics). Is the fear from doctors and the draconian DEA's scope left over from the "War on Drugs"?
  - salawat 6y ago
    Yes, a big portion of Electronic Healthcare Records is getting all relevant records to be capable of following you everywhere digitally. The paper equivalent before ACA was a foot to a foot and a half stack of papers you picked up from your old physician. The fear comes from DEA as they track metrics from pharmacies, and are tge source of all prescription pads for controlled substances. If you end up looking suspicious enough to look into, you could very quickly find yourself in very hot water. You could lose access to the privilege to write controlled substance prescriptions, which means lost patients, have your license revoked, or any other unpleasant outcome. You have to have a good relationship with your physician, because if for whatever reason the start feeling overly exposed professionally, your adverse health outcome is less severe to them than possible investigation by authorities or jeopardization of their ability to see patients. The sad thing is, I can't even really blame them. It's 100% reasonable from their point of view, and from an outsider's, but as a patient trying to navigate your own physiology in a way that doesn't end in catastrophic consequences for yourself, those you know and love, and those depending on you to play your part in the grand scheme of things, it sure does feel like everyone is a-okay letting you take the fall for the sake of the perverse incentives created by the regulatory environment.
adolph 6y ago
The official medical-system approved thought process, which Greene & Chambers are defending in this paper, is “Since he is displaying signs of drug-seeking behavior, he must be an addict trying to con you into giving him his next fix.” https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/16/against-against-pseudoaddiction/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/16/against-against-pseudo...

csharptwdec19 6y ago

'Seeking' in this case is trying to get pain meds. > Would they be a seeker if they took home the meds and not actually take them? The drs would then think "why more pain med, they are already on some?" No, that's not seeker behavior. An 'extreme' example of seeker behavior would be to take the pills home, and try to come up with the best excuse possible to have 'lost' them. > or of they didn't accept and take home the meds from the drs? This is the scenario I'm talking about more. The problem is, if the patient comes back, depending on where the patient went, they might not get the same doctor as before (Thinking scenarios like urgent Care, ER, etc). And when you are in a lot of pain, you might not always think/act rationally. Ironically your desire to deal with immediate severe pain could in fact look from the outside as someone going through withdrawls.

thinkingemote 6y ago
Ahh I see! Thanks for the clarification.

salawat 6y ago

A seeker is someone without a legitimate reason or medical history nevertheless trying to get their hands on prescriptions for controlled substances. It's annoying as hell, because if you make the unfortunate mistake of associating with an onverly nervous doctor and you're on a controlled substance, it can lead to a life ruining adjustment of your dosage. (Happened to me right after a job loss.) Showing up with a 20 odd year file of history of successful treatment history on something helps, but you still have to be hyper vigilant about finding a prescriber willing to work with you without being flaky. Yoy can't even think of moving or long term visitation somewhere unless you're made of enough money to do some recon work ahead of time to find a doc at a new location, or return wherever your old one is for the interim to top up fill your prescriptions. As a person with a valid medical justification, I'm basically already in a gilded prison created by DEA where I have to essentially mother-may-I either the insurance company or physician anytime I want or need to relocate for more than 30 days. And God help you with tolerance built up. Then you're adding a new monthly family member unless you figure out how to nutritionally supplement for your particular body chem to get around it. I will shed no tears over massive fefunding of DEA or restriction of their Draconian scope, but I have the feeling I'll never see it, because there is too much self-destructive potential and black market incentuve for illegal trade to ever become small enough without an organization putting pressure on it. That may be some level of Stockholm Syndrome talking though, as I'm not sure I don't just tell myself that to keep myself from wasting my time shouting into the wind.

thinkingemote 6y ago
Yes I see how getting that label can be life ruining! Thanks for clarifying. Are doctors by default nervous about this? Can't they share your file between them? (I'm in Europe, so my experience is different, sorry I don't know these basics). Is the fear from doctors and the draconian DEA's scope left over from the "War on Drugs"?
- salawat 6y ago
  Yes, a big portion of Electronic Healthcare Records is getting all relevant records to be capable of following you everywhere digitally. The paper equivalent before ACA was a foot to a foot and a half stack of papers you picked up from your old physician. The fear comes from DEA as they track metrics from pharmacies, and are tge source of all prescription pads for controlled substances. If you end up looking suspicious enough to look into, you could very quickly find yourself in very hot water. You could lose access to the privilege to write controlled substance prescriptions, which means lost patients, have your license revoked, or any other unpleasant outcome. You have to have a good relationship with your physician, because if for whatever reason the start feeling overly exposed professionally, your adverse health outcome is less severe to them than possible investigation by authorities or jeopardization of their ability to see patients. The sad thing is, I can't even really blame them. It's 100% reasonable from their point of view, and from an outsider's, but as a patient trying to navigate your own physiology in a way that doesn't end in catastrophic consequences for yourself, those you know and love, and those depending on you to play your part in the grand scheme of things, it sure does feel like everyone is a-okay letting you take the fall for the sake of the perverse incentives created by the regulatory environment.

adolph 6y ago

The official medical-system approved thought process, which Greene & Chambers are defending in this paper, is “Since he is displaying signs of drug-seeking behavior, he must be an addict trying to con you into giving him his next fix.” https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/16/against-against-pseudoaddiction/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/09/16/against-against-pseudo...