7 ms·

Agree. As a small developer, apples 30% tax never bothered me - seemed excessive but worth it. The arbitrary and weird approval rules is what turned me off thei

Agree. As a small developer, apples 30% tax never bothered me - seemed excessive but worth it. The arbitrary and weird approval rules is what turned me off their platform. Although I could see how they are trying to appease antitrust regulators with this move - although they should have gone with 0 - 2% range for that. 15% is a substantial markup to price consumers would pay for using apples monopolized mobile software distribution store.

eecc 6y ago
Imagine the outrage if people learned the markup that distributors make on vegetables and dairy as well as the monopsony power they wield against small farmers!
- toyg 6y ago
  You’re kidding, right? I don’t know how it is in the Land of the Free, but in Europe most margins on food are in the single digits all the way down. It’s true that small producers are squeezed at both ends, but at least there are market dynamics in place - if one supermarket chain takes too much, you go and sell to the other one, and the consumer can get it anyway. Double-digit and triple-digit margins are the reason the software world is now dominating the economy. Most other sectors can only dream of that.
  - eecc 6y ago
    No, I’m not. In Italy it’s common to see markups of 600% on veggies at the supermarket. There are few intermediaries and they get to dictate prices, mandatory discounts, and run double-discounted auctions (which the legislature is trying to make illegal.) If you get to outsmart them selling to another distributor (as if they’re not conniving already) good luck selling your next load of perishable goods before it rots. Also brick & mortar shops make hideous markups to cover for their poor selection, inventory and commercial space rent (so sure, it doesn’t line only their pockets but for the final consumer it doesn’t make much difference.)
    - toyg 6y ago
      I think we’re not talking about the same definition of margin. If Widget A goes through 10 intermediaries and each skims 5%, that’s still 5% margin for every link of the chain. I seriously doubt any intermediary or food distributor in Italy enjoys a 600% margin - if you know of one let me know and I’ll go buy shares in it tomorrow, the dividends must be succulent. You can argue that the chain is too long or this or that link is squeezed, but that is another matter.
- fakedang 6y ago
  Wish I could downvote this for fake info, but I'm too new. Distributors make a pittance for a relatively risky bet on delivering fruit and veggies. Margins are usually below 10%, often close to 5%, and definitely nowhere near 30%. On top of that, there's the added risk of damage happening to the goods in transit and storage, voiding the entire profit. Google and Apple make money by sitting on their asses and taking a slice off a developer's cheque, which is more akin to a usurious mafia slumlord rather than a tech company. Small farmers are on the short end of a stick, but only because by nature small landholdings are not profitable, and farming is a scale operation for production of a commoditized good by nature. App development is not a scale operation - a developer can be easily profitable with a small group of high-paying customers.
  - randomsearch 6y ago
    UK typically ~ 3%, learnt that recently and was shocked.
  - eecc 6y ago
    Nope, you should do your research before reaching for your guns. In Italy for example it’s a well known, scandalous situation that’s been going on for years. Apologies for the Italian links but that’s all I could find for now: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura-la-grande-distribuzione-impone-i-prezzi-agli-agricoltori-a-noi-danno-30-40-centesimi-poi-vendono-a-25-euro-ecco-la-filiera-che-facilita-illegalita-e-sfruttamento/5801108/ https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura... https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg
    - drenvuk 6y ago
      excuse me for my lack of Italian but is there any way you can find something in English or possibly outline what is happening?
      - eecc 6y ago
        I’ll quickly try: there are a handful of big supermarket chains - the article and the video reportage mention Coop, Conad, Gruppo Selex, Esselunga, Eurospin - that set prices and mandatory discounts. They essentially don’t compete, and fairness is only left to goodwill (e.g. Coop is historically tied to the Left and operates under a more worker-friendly CoC. In theory.) Access to consumer markets is either via a looooong chain of small, inefficient and parasitic intermediaries or via the GDO, the logistics organizations of these few supermarket chains. So the farmers are squeezed, they fall in debt and go bankrupt, or sell out to big landlords; and both tend to employ illegal immigrants under inhuman working conditions to meet the prices set by the aforementioned.

eecc 6y ago

Imagine the outrage if people learned the markup that distributors make on vegetables and dairy as well as the monopsony power they wield against small farmers!

toyg 6y ago
You’re kidding, right? I don’t know how it is in the Land of the Free, but in Europe most margins on food are in the single digits all the way down. It’s true that small producers are squeezed at both ends, but at least there are market dynamics in place - if one supermarket chain takes too much, you go and sell to the other one, and the consumer can get it anyway. Double-digit and triple-digit margins are the reason the software world is now dominating the economy. Most other sectors can only dream of that.
- eecc 6y ago
  No, I’m not. In Italy it’s common to see markups of 600% on veggies at the supermarket. There are few intermediaries and they get to dictate prices, mandatory discounts, and run double-discounted auctions (which the legislature is trying to make illegal.) If you get to outsmart them selling to another distributor (as if they’re not conniving already) good luck selling your next load of perishable goods before it rots. Also brick & mortar shops make hideous markups to cover for their poor selection, inventory and commercial space rent (so sure, it doesn’t line only their pockets but for the final consumer it doesn’t make much difference.)
  - toyg 6y ago
    I think we’re not talking about the same definition of margin. If Widget A goes through 10 intermediaries and each skims 5%, that’s still 5% margin for every link of the chain. I seriously doubt any intermediary or food distributor in Italy enjoys a 600% margin - if you know of one let me know and I’ll go buy shares in it tomorrow, the dividends must be succulent. You can argue that the chain is too long or this or that link is squeezed, but that is another matter.
fakedang 6y ago
Wish I could downvote this for fake info, but I'm too new. Distributors make a pittance for a relatively risky bet on delivering fruit and veggies. Margins are usually below 10%, often close to 5%, and definitely nowhere near 30%. On top of that, there's the added risk of damage happening to the goods in transit and storage, voiding the entire profit. Google and Apple make money by sitting on their asses and taking a slice off a developer's cheque, which is more akin to a usurious mafia slumlord rather than a tech company. Small farmers are on the short end of a stick, but only because by nature small landholdings are not profitable, and farming is a scale operation for production of a commoditized good by nature. App development is not a scale operation - a developer can be easily profitable with a small group of high-paying customers.
- randomsearch 6y ago
  UK typically ~ 3%, learnt that recently and was shocked.
- eecc 6y ago
  Nope, you should do your research before reaching for your guns. In Italy for example it’s a well known, scandalous situation that’s been going on for years. Apologies for the Italian links but that’s all I could find for now: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura-la-grande-distribuzione-impone-i-prezzi-agli-agricoltori-a-noi-danno-30-40-centesimi-poi-vendono-a-25-euro-ecco-la-filiera-che-facilita-illegalita-e-sfruttamento/5801108/ https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/05/14/frutta-e-verdura... https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg https://youtu.be/29OYrFOYkTg
  - drenvuk 6y ago
    excuse me for my lack of Italian but is there any way you can find something in English or possibly outline what is happening?
    - eecc 6y ago
      I’ll quickly try: there are a handful of big supermarket chains - the article and the video reportage mention Coop, Conad, Gruppo Selex, Esselunga, Eurospin - that set prices and mandatory discounts. They essentially don’t compete, and fairness is only left to goodwill (e.g. Coop is historically tied to the Left and operates under a more worker-friendly CoC. In theory.) Access to consumer markets is either via a looooong chain of small, inefficient and parasitic intermediaries or via the GDO, the logistics organizations of these few supermarket chains. So the farmers are squeezed, they fall in debt and go bankrupt, or sell out to big landlords; and both tend to employ illegal immigrants under inhuman working conditions to meet the prices set by the aforementioned.