17 ms·

employment is an actual contract, not just social.

rich_sasha 6y ago
right, but what underpins the usual rules of employment is based on what the society wants. Like democracy - it is literally a contract, written in laws. And yet it is also a social contract.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  the usual rules of employment is based on what the society wants. Until "the board" steps in and says 'no', right? That's been my experience. Proclamations and cheerleading about "we're a meritocracy, we act democratically in this company". Times get tough (like a Global pandemic coming along), employees ask firm questions like "will the executives taking a pay cut like the rest of us?" Response: "the board said no" "We're all in this together"; "The board won't approve it." "Burnout is real! Take steps to monitor it";"The board won't approve a 4 day work week" etc. I've been in some VERY heated and passionately argued meetings in the last month as a leader, hearing my cohort leaders giving voice and in some cases giving voice myself to concerns and frustrations coming from a workforce that is growing pretty pessimistic watching how much of the internal corporate cheerleading and messaging in practice is at odds with corporate rhetoric that have manifested during our extended org-wide WFH. Wonder if anyone else has observed the same.
  - rich_sasha 6y ago
    So as I see it, the society leaves most of an employment contract up to the firm-employee combo (where the firm has the upper hand). But some fundamental things are not up to the company, at least by law: can't discriminate by gender, race, age, veteran status, marital status, having children and so on. In Europe, like it or not, you must give your employees paid holiday leave, sick leave and time off to look after children. If firing people, you must give them proper notice, and cannot fire people for a long list of reasons considered illegal. If doing group redundancies, you must follow proper procedure, aiming to maximise the fairness of the approach.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    My favorite recent observation along these lines was our CEO encouraging us to take a week off recently "to avoid burnout". But our PTO grants haven't changed, and so most folks don't have the time to take off. Of course, this is the same CEO who owns three separate properties, and flew between them in his private jet, to keep his own stress levels down during Covid-19.

right, but what underpins the usual rules of employment is based on what the society wants. Like democracy - it is literally a contract, written in laws. And yet it is also a social contract.

dvtrn 6y ago
the usual rules of employment is based on what the society wants. Until "the board" steps in and says 'no', right? That's been my experience. Proclamations and cheerleading about "we're a meritocracy, we act democratically in this company". Times get tough (like a Global pandemic coming along), employees ask firm questions like "will the executives taking a pay cut like the rest of us?" Response: "the board said no" "We're all in this together"; "The board won't approve it." "Burnout is real! Take steps to monitor it";"The board won't approve a 4 day work week" etc. I've been in some VERY heated and passionately argued meetings in the last month as a leader, hearing my cohort leaders giving voice and in some cases giving voice myself to concerns and frustrations coming from a workforce that is growing pretty pessimistic watching how much of the internal corporate cheerleading and messaging in practice is at odds with corporate rhetoric that have manifested during our extended org-wide WFH. Wonder if anyone else has observed the same.
- rich_sasha 6y ago
  So as I see it, the society leaves most of an employment contract up to the firm-employee combo (where the firm has the upper hand). But some fundamental things are not up to the company, at least by law: can't discriminate by gender, race, age, veteran status, marital status, having children and so on. In Europe, like it or not, you must give your employees paid holiday leave, sick leave and time off to look after children. If firing people, you must give them proper notice, and cannot fire people for a long list of reasons considered illegal. If doing group redundancies, you must follow proper procedure, aiming to maximise the fairness of the approach.
- falcolas 6y ago
  My favorite recent observation along these lines was our CEO encouraging us to take a week off recently "to avoid burnout". But our PTO grants haven't changed, and so most folks don't have the time to take off. Of course, this is the same CEO who owns three separate properties, and flew between them in his private jet, to keep his own stress levels down during Covid-19.