4 ms·

I seriously consider going away from Android (Google). Is Linux a viable option as mobile OS? I've got a feeling that it is almost as a 'dumb' phone. You got y

by thdrdt 6y ago

I seriously consider going away from Android (Google). Is Linux a viable option as mobile OS? I've got a feeling that it is almost as a 'dumb' phone. You got your calculator and SMS app but that's about it. Or would going to something like LineageOS be a better option?

fsflover 6y ago
> I've got a feeling that it is almost as a 'dumb' phone. You got your calculator and SMS app but that's about it. GNU/Linux phones are full personal computers in your pocket. They can do everything a computer can do: terminal, desktop Firefox, games, convergence (external screen, keyboard, mouse) etc. See my other links about Librem 5 in this thread.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Some of my Android devices as well, I just don't bother doing it.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    No previous phones provided real convergence (not just connecting the external screen, but using desktop apps). This is also not all differences. See here for more details: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#15-how-innovative-is-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      My point was "They can do everything a computer can do".
      - fsflover 6y ago
        This is not everything though if you cannot use desktop apps, connect keyboard/mouse/screen and install any OS.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Just use Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and cast to the screen, done. Windowed Android apps running on full screen are desktop apps. As for install any OS, then I guess Apple platforms aren't computers.
        fsflover 6y ago
        Android apps on a big screen are not desktop apps [0]. Can you run desktop Firefox with all plugins there? Can you run native GNU/Linux applications in a terminal? Can you use the latest Linux kernel? [0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#213-how-well-will-convergence-work-to-use-the-librem-5-as-a-desktop-pc https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... > As for install any OS, then I guess Apple platforms aren't computers. They are not general-purpose computers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        They look like desktop apps to me. I am running windowed applications on a desktop, apparently Oxford dictionary needs an update to satisfy your world vision. I guess all those 8 and 16 bit computers I worked with weren't general purpose either.
        fsflover 6y ago
        > I guess all those 8 and 16 bit computers I worked with weren't general purpose either. It's absolutely not what I mean by general purpose. Please read the reference.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        I have read it, and again I was already coding in the age of 8 and 16 bit computing, with their OSes built-in into ROM, no issues with them. I also only cared for Linux because Microsoft wasn't serious about POSIX support back in the day and it was a solution for my problem to avoid commuting for an hour to access a DG/UX system.
- chriswarbo 6y ago
  Yep. I've been doing this for over a decade on my OpenMoko. Getting a PinePhone for Christmas though!
linmob 6y ago
No, there’s a lot more. Also, some Android apps work via Anbox. I have been blogging (https://linmob.net https://linmob.net) about this since June and created a bunch of videos. If you have more specific questions, feel free to email me.
ryukafalz 6y ago
>Is Linux a viable option as mobile OS? As someone in the US, I would have to say no, for one reason: None of the mobile Linux distros yet support group texts (reliably, anyway). If someone sends you a group text, you won't see it. (The only distro that seems to have partial support for it is Ubuntu Touch, and there it seems incomplete; sometimes I would receive group messages and sometimes not. I missed a few important ones this way.) This is probably only relevant to those in the US as I understand MMS is not as prevalent elsewhere.
- ptx 6y ago
  > This is probably only relevant to those in the US as I understand MMS is not as prevalent elsewhere. I've heard this a few times in connection with the Pinephone, but we certainly do use MMS in Europe. I seem to recall, assuming my memory is at all reliable, that when the iPhone first launched, Europeans were complaining about the lack of MMS and Americans were saying it wasn't a problem because everyone should just use e-mail.
  - ryukafalz 6y ago
    2007 was a different time. (A time when almost nobody had smartphones - how foreign is that from today's perspective?) Have a look at the plan available in the US for the iPhone at the time: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/06/26AT-T-and-Apple-Announce-Simple-Affordable-Service-Plans-for-iPhone/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/06/26AT-T-and-Apple-Anno... 200 SMS messages (MMS counts here too), unlimited data. Now look at today's: https://www.att.com/plans/wireless/ https://www.att.com/plans/wireless/ Even the cheapest plan has unlimited SMS and effectively unlimited MMS as a result. Whether it's used more because it's included or whether it's included because it's used more (probably a bit of both)... I don't think 2007 is a useful reference point for what people expect from their phones today.
    - ptx 6y ago
      The cheapest plan on that page is $30. I get unlimited MMS on my $17 plan in Europe, so I don't see how the pricing would make MMS more prevalent in the US than in Europe. Do you have a reference supporting the idea that MMS is mostly relevant to the US and not the rest of the world? It doesn't match up with my experience, but maybe my family and friends are atypical.
squarefoot 6y ago
> You got your calculator and SMS app but that's about it. Well, thankfully it's not the case. The heart is a ARM processor with plenty of code already ported to run on it, and the surrounding hardware isn't that different from many single board computers that already run complete Linux distributions. As an example, Firefox, GIMP and Libreoffice -the real ones, not dumbed down versions- already do run on the Pinephone. https://liliputing.com/2019/11/pinephone-smartphone-can-run-desktop-linux-apps-also-makes-phone-calls.html https://liliputing.com/2019/11/pinephone-smartphone-can-run-... Keep in mind that the video is one year old, meaning old phone model with less RAM, very young OS and likely no code optimization for apps to run on a phone rather on a desktop PC. Actually I wouldn't be surprised at all if one year from now we would have more software available for the Pinephone compared to Android. Sometimes it's just a matter of recompiling (huge argument in favor of Open Source). As another example, if Lazarus (lazarus-ide.org) would run on it (it already does on the Raspberry PI and many other ARM boards), one could develop native GUI apps directly on the phone. Probably not comfortable, still possible. The only problem in my opinion would arise from the unavailability of phone specific apps, particularly closed ones or those depending on proprietary servers whose owners wouldn't give a damn about recompiling their client and are particularly anal retentive wrt allowing 3rd party apps accessing the services, for example Whatsapp. In that case one would have to attempt to emulate a different platform in which run the original proprietary app, which very likely would make things too slow to be useable.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  With regard to Whatsapp, it should run on Anbox (Android emulation for PinePhone), because Whatsapp does not require Google Play Services and runs on vanilla Android.
  - squarefoot 6y ago
    Do you have any data on performance? Having Whatsapp run at acceptable speed on Linux phones would represent a great bump for their acceptance among normal users.

by thdrdt 6y ago

fsflover 6y ago

> I've got a feeling that it is almost as a 'dumb' phone. You got your calculator and SMS app but that's about it. GNU/Linux phones are full personal computers in your pocket. They can do everything a computer can do: terminal, desktop Firefox, games, convergence (external screen, keyboard, mouse) etc. See my other links about Librem 5 in this thread.

pjmlp 6y ago
Some of my Android devices as well, I just don't bother doing it.
- fsflover 6y ago
  No previous phones provided real convergence (not just connecting the external screen, but using desktop apps). This is also not all differences. See here for more details: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#15-how-innovative-is-the-librem-5 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    My point was "They can do everything a computer can do".
    - fsflover 6y ago
      This is not everything though if you cannot use desktop apps, connect keyboard/mouse/screen and install any OS.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Just use Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and cast to the screen, done. Windowed Android apps running on full screen are desktop apps. As for install any OS, then I guess Apple platforms aren't computers.
        fsflover 6y ago
        Android apps on a big screen are not desktop apps [0]. Can you run desktop Firefox with all plugins there? Can you run native GNU/Linux applications in a terminal? Can you use the latest Linux kernel? [0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Frequently-Asked-Questions#213-how-well-will-convergence-work-to-use-the-librem-5-as-a-desktop-pc https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque... > As for install any OS, then I guess Apple platforms aren't computers. They are not general-purpose computers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866279.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        They look like desktop apps to me. I am running windowed applications on a desktop, apparently Oxford dictionary needs an update to satisfy your world vision. I guess all those 8 and 16 bit computers I worked with weren't general purpose either.
        fsflover 6y ago
        > I guess all those 8 and 16 bit computers I worked with weren't general purpose either. It's absolutely not what I mean by general purpose. Please read the reference.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        I have read it, and again I was already coding in the age of 8 and 16 bit computing, with their OSes built-in into ROM, no issues with them. I also only cared for Linux because Microsoft wasn't serious about POSIX support back in the day and it was a solution for my problem to avoid commuting for an hour to access a DG/UX system.
chriswarbo 6y ago
Yep. I've been doing this for over a decade on my OpenMoko. Getting a PinePhone for Christmas though!

linmob 6y ago

No, there’s a lot more. Also, some Android apps work via Anbox. I have been blogging (https://linmob.net https://linmob.net) about this since June and created a bunch of videos. If you have more specific questions, feel free to email me.

ryukafalz 6y ago

>Is Linux a viable option as mobile OS? As someone in the US, I would have to say no, for one reason: None of the mobile Linux distros yet support group texts (reliably, anyway). If someone sends you a group text, you won't see it. (The only distro that seems to have partial support for it is Ubuntu Touch, and there it seems incomplete; sometimes I would receive group messages and sometimes not. I missed a few important ones this way.) This is probably only relevant to those in the US as I understand MMS is not as prevalent elsewhere.

ptx 6y ago
> This is probably only relevant to those in the US as I understand MMS is not as prevalent elsewhere. I've heard this a few times in connection with the Pinephone, but we certainly do use MMS in Europe. I seem to recall, assuming my memory is at all reliable, that when the iPhone first launched, Europeans were complaining about the lack of MMS and Americans were saying it wasn't a problem because everyone should just use e-mail.
- ryukafalz 6y ago
  2007 was a different time. (A time when almost nobody had smartphones - how foreign is that from today's perspective?) Have a look at the plan available in the US for the iPhone at the time: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/06/26AT-T-and-Apple-Announce-Simple-Affordable-Service-Plans-for-iPhone/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/06/26AT-T-and-Apple-Anno... 200 SMS messages (MMS counts here too), unlimited data. Now look at today's: https://www.att.com/plans/wireless/ https://www.att.com/plans/wireless/ Even the cheapest plan has unlimited SMS and effectively unlimited MMS as a result. Whether it's used more because it's included or whether it's included because it's used more (probably a bit of both)... I don't think 2007 is a useful reference point for what people expect from their phones today.
  - ptx 6y ago
    The cheapest plan on that page is $30. I get unlimited MMS on my $17 plan in Europe, so I don't see how the pricing would make MMS more prevalent in the US than in Europe. Do you have a reference supporting the idea that MMS is mostly relevant to the US and not the rest of the world? It doesn't match up with my experience, but maybe my family and friends are atypical.

squarefoot 6y ago

> You got your calculator and SMS app but that's about it. Well, thankfully it's not the case. The heart is a ARM processor with plenty of code already ported to run on it, and the surrounding hardware isn't that different from many single board computers that already run complete Linux distributions. As an example, Firefox, GIMP and Libreoffice -the real ones, not dumbed down versions- already do run on the Pinephone. https://liliputing.com/2019/11/pinephone-smartphone-can-run-desktop-linux-apps-also-makes-phone-calls.html https://liliputing.com/2019/11/pinephone-smartphone-can-run-... Keep in mind that the video is one year old, meaning old phone model with less RAM, very young OS and likely no code optimization for apps to run on a phone rather on a desktop PC. Actually I wouldn't be surprised at all if one year from now we would have more software available for the Pinephone compared to Android. Sometimes it's just a matter of recompiling (huge argument in favor of Open Source). As another example, if Lazarus (lazarus-ide.org) would run on it (it already does on the Raspberry PI and many other ARM boards), one could develop native GUI apps directly on the phone. Probably not comfortable, still possible. The only problem in my opinion would arise from the unavailability of phone specific apps, particularly closed ones or those depending on proprietary servers whose owners wouldn't give a damn about recompiling their client and are particularly anal retentive wrt allowing 3rd party apps accessing the services, for example Whatsapp. In that case one would have to attempt to emulate a different platform in which run the original proprietary app, which very likely would make things too slow to be useable.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
With regard to Whatsapp, it should run on Anbox (Android emulation for PinePhone), because Whatsapp does not require Google Play Services and runs on vanilla Android.
- squarefoot 6y ago
  Do you have any data on performance? Having Whatsapp run at acceptable speed on Linux phones would represent a great bump for their acceptance among normal users.