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I mean, with new teslas, their range is similar enough to gas cars that you only need to charge them about once a week, if that. And they charge fast enough th

by Jetrel 6y ago

I mean, with new teslas, their range is similar enough to gas cars that you only need to charge them about once a week, if that. And they charge fast enough that it's not terribly dissimilar from hitting the gas station, which currently is perhaps a 10 minute affair for gas. Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. It's feasible, if a little bit annoying, to have a refueling story for them that's similar to that of gas cars. I think this idea of electrics desperately needing to charge every time they're parked - it's not wrong, but it's getting pretty close to being an anachronism, and I expect it actually will be on in 5ish years, certainly 10.

onion2k 6y ago
Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. Imagine you turn up to a charging station behind 4 other cars, and there's 2 charging points. Your 20 minute wait is now an hour. If each car took 10 minutes then you'd only be waiting 20 minutes. Increasing the average waiting time in a queue has a terrible impact on throughput.
- markburns 6y ago
  I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that. Presumably the number of pumps at a station is a function of required throughput. I also think there will be a lot more roadside individual charging stations rather than specialised large locations that are convenient because of the centralised storage of a physical liquid.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that. Sure, but that's limited by land in cities and electrical infrastructure in more rural areas. Whether there'll ever be enough charging points to make charging your car not be a hassle is something only time will tell.
- glogla 6y ago
  In isolation yes. But holistically the "charging station instead of gas station" equation has more factors - you have to discount - everyone who can charge at home (i.e. anyone with a garage or their own driveway), - those who change in public places like shopping malls or at work, and - any other infrastructure (like the "charging port in street light" thing) so the new "gas station" is likely to get less busy - depending on home ownership in the area and how many shopping malls get charging ports, most cars might only ever visit "gas station" on a road trip.
calcifer 6y ago
> which currently is perhaps a 10 minute affair for gas. Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker Here in the UK 10 minutes is already on the upper end of acceptable, I can't remember the last time it took me that long. 20 minutes would definitely be a dealbreaker for the vast majority of people.
- zelos 6y ago
  Given that the alternative is not having a car at all (unless hydrogen takes off), surely people can adjust?
forest_dweller 6y ago
How much is a Tesla? Many tens of thousands of pounds. They have to be a lot cheaper or I am just going to buy another second hand car and just use it as a donour car for my existing vehicle.
- PJDK 6y ago
  As of this year you can get an a lease on an electric company car with a benefit in kind tax rate of 0%. i.e You don't have to pay income tax on the lease[0]. That can make an enormous difference to their affordability, and should also inject a large pool of electric cars into the second hand market over the next few years. [0] https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/incentives https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/incentives
  - forest_dweller 6y ago
    I do not want to lease a car. I want to own a car. I don't want to be paying monthly for something unless I absolutely have to. > That can make an enormous difference to their affordability, and should also inject a large pool of electric cars into the second hand market over the next few years. Still too expensive. My current vehicle cost me £4000. It has been paid for (I got a bank loan, I didn't lease or hire purchase) for many years now. It cost me next to nothing to repair, run, tax and MOT. It has next to no fancy electronics and it just works. I can to take it to any garage in the UK and they can repair it, with Teslas, BMWs, Mercs etc you can't really do that. There is no benefit to me in owning an electric vehicle.

by Jetrel 6y ago

onion2k 6y ago

Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. Imagine you turn up to a charging station behind 4 other cars, and there's 2 charging points. Your 20 minute wait is now an hour. If each car took 10 minutes then you'd only be waiting 20 minutes. Increasing the average waiting time in a queue has a terrible impact on throughput.

markburns 6y ago
I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that. Presumably the number of pumps at a station is a function of required throughput. I also think there will be a lot more roadside individual charging stations rather than specialised large locations that are convenient because of the centralised storage of a physical liquid.
- onion2k 6y ago
  I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that. Sure, but that's limited by land in cities and electrical infrastructure in more rural areas. Whether there'll ever be enough charging points to make charging your car not be a hassle is something only time will tell.
glogla 6y ago
In isolation yes. But holistically the "charging station instead of gas station" equation has more factors - you have to discount - everyone who can charge at home (i.e. anyone with a garage or their own driveway), - those who change in public places like shopping malls or at work, and - any other infrastructure (like the "charging port in street light" thing) so the new "gas station" is likely to get less busy - depending on home ownership in the area and how many shopping malls get charging ports, most cars might only ever visit "gas station" on a road trip.

calcifer 6y ago

> which currently is perhaps a 10 minute affair for gas. Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker Here in the UK 10 minutes is already on the upper end of acceptable, I can't remember the last time it took me that long. 20 minutes would definitely be a dealbreaker for the vast majority of people.

zelos 6y ago
Given that the alternative is not having a car at all (unless hydrogen takes off), surely people can adjust?

forest_dweller 6y ago

How much is a Tesla? Many tens of thousands of pounds. They have to be a lot cheaper or I am just going to buy another second hand car and just use it as a donour car for my existing vehicle.

PJDK 6y ago
As of this year you can get an a lease on an electric company car with a benefit in kind tax rate of 0%. i.e You don't have to pay income tax on the lease[0]. That can make an enormous difference to their affordability, and should also inject a large pool of electric cars into the second hand market over the next few years. [0] https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/incentives https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/incentives
- forest_dweller 6y ago
  I do not want to lease a car. I want to own a car. I don't want to be paying monthly for something unless I absolutely have to. > That can make an enormous difference to their affordability, and should also inject a large pool of electric cars into the second hand market over the next few years. Still too expensive. My current vehicle cost me £4000. It has been paid for (I got a bank loan, I didn't lease or hire purchase) for many years now. It cost me next to nothing to repair, run, tax and MOT. It has next to no fancy electronics and it just works. I can to take it to any garage in the UK and they can repair it, with Teslas, BMWs, Mercs etc you can't really do that. There is no benefit to me in owning an electric vehicle.