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The author of this article wrote Deep Work, which stresses the importance of, well, deep work over more shallow tasks like responding to emails (it is stressed

by noobly 6y ago

The author of this article wrote Deep Work, which stresses the importance of, well, deep work over more shallow tasks like responding to emails (it is stressed that shallow is not intended to be a deragatory term). I've seen his opposition to GTD expressed before and was excited to see it in long form, but left a bit disappointed when it was essentially just recommending a kanban style approache and some limitations on interuprting another person. I understand it is an open question though. Though I do empathize with the addictiveness of productivity systems. As mentioned, it disguises itself as a form of productivity and can be easy to get carried away. I think ultimately it comes down to how one implements their GTD system; I use it to offload stuff I don't want to worry about remembering (including outlines for projects), and am careful to limit my view to only what's currently on my plate. This allows me more time for 'deep work', but this work however is extremely unstructured, and I've come to learn that's a feature and breaking it down into a GTD style checklist is not at all effective for me. I think that's why it may be hard to come up with an equivalent system for deep work; it just doesn't lend itself as well to a GTD style approach, so perhaps my criticisms above were misguided.

CPLX 6y ago
I tried reading Cal Newport's books and have found them terrible, even given the quite low standards of the genre. I really wanted to get excited about the concept of digital minimalism, but his book of the same name was almost completely devoid of insight. I struggled to find any information in it that wasn't already contained by thinking the two word title seemed not-bad as a prospective lifestyle change. He sells a lot of books, so I guess it's just my opinion, but I keep relearning the same lesson, as the topics he chooses certainly are interesting.
- porknubbins 6y ago
  I really enjoyed Deep Work because it solidified the idea of something I did sometimes anyway without realizing it so I could be more conscious of it. If you have had a long enough STEM education or career I almost think there has to be some deep work at some point, but maybe its already so ingrained that its nothing new. I don’t think there is an “epidemic shallowness” though, just that most jobs are mostly shallow.
- scottlocklin 6y ago
  I find it darkly amusing that people need a book to tell them to turn off IM tools, phone, email and other distractions for a while. I also find it darkly amusing that GTD is basically a system for dealing with IM tools, phone and email for people who feel they have no choice (they totally have a choice; it is a bullshit paradigm -even the president has plenty of goof off time). I have no place else to say so, but latency in zoom is annoying as fuck, and it totally didn't happen with twisted pair. Back in 2016 times, I insisted on twisted pair meetings. Even then, dipshits with ipotatos on wifi would find a way to fuck it up. Now a days, even I don't have access to twisted pair, so we're in a new dark age, similar to how old fashioned 7 gallon flush toilet bowls were vastly superior to the atrocities we have now. Most people only dimly aware of what has been taken away from us in the name of "progress."
seltzered_ 6y ago
FWIW, back in 2017 Venkatesh Rao looked at the distractions going on in the world and criticised 'deep work' in the process: https://breakingsmart.substack.com/p/life-in-the-time-of-choleric https://breakingsmart.substack.com/p/life-in-the-time-of-cho... "17/ In more sanguine times, this is easy in theory. You just log off from Facebook and Twitter, and put your head down and do what people like Cal Newport call “deep work.” 18/ I personally don’t believe in the idea of unplugging for "productivity" even in sanguine times, but in choleric times, it is a recipe for doing tone-deaf projects nobody cares about. 19/ Unless you work in pure mathematics or physics (and perhaps even then), your work is capable of creating meaning only if it is responsive to, and consciously situated in, its social milieu."
- jeffxtreme 6y ago
  That's an interesting piece. But I wonder if it's criticizing more the idea of "working in a vacuum" without taking into account what's going on in the world, as opposed to "focused work" (which imho, can still be work on something culturally aligned).
  - EricE 6y ago
    "what's going on in the world" Just triggered a thought - what's so special about "what's going on in the world", especially when the majority of what people focus on with social media will never affect them and at best is the equivalent of local gossip. Only now, because of the wonders of the Internet and social media, mundane crap from the opposite side of the planet can now feel local too.
    - npsimons 6y ago
      > Just triggered a thought - what's so special about "what's going on in the world", especially when the majority of what people focus on with social media will never affect them and at best is the equivalent of local gossip. I came to this conclusion years and years ago, when I stopped watching TV news because of ads, but had the unintended side effect that I became more informed about the world (because I had more time to invest in reading true journalism). When I tell people I don't watch the news, they scoff and claim I'm ignorant. I ask them what the most important thing was in the news two weeks ago. They never can tell me.
johnorourke 6y ago
> I think ultimately it comes down to how one implements their GTD system In "Perfect Time-Based Productivity"[1], Francis Wade pulls this idea apart and discusses how you can create a system that is suited to the time-demands you currently have. eg. the system a CEO with days full of meetings needs is different to the postal worker whose time demands are fairly clear and dictated by someone else. The real gold in this book though, is about how you need a "trusted system" - ie. we all have multiple channels (work email, IMs, personal email, phone(s), family, colleagues, ...) creating demands on our time, and we each need a system suited to our own mind and our own siutation for remembering and organising those demands, which nobody else has permission to add to. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23600431-perfect-time-based-productivity https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23600431-perfect-time-ba...

by noobly 6y ago

CPLX 6y ago

I tried reading Cal Newport's books and have found them terrible, even given the quite low standards of the genre. I really wanted to get excited about the concept of digital minimalism, but his book of the same name was almost completely devoid of insight. I struggled to find any information in it that wasn't already contained by thinking the two word title seemed not-bad as a prospective lifestyle change. He sells a lot of books, so I guess it's just my opinion, but I keep relearning the same lesson, as the topics he chooses certainly are interesting.

porknubbins 6y ago
I really enjoyed Deep Work because it solidified the idea of something I did sometimes anyway without realizing it so I could be more conscious of it. If you have had a long enough STEM education or career I almost think there has to be some deep work at some point, but maybe its already so ingrained that its nothing new. I don’t think there is an “epidemic shallowness” though, just that most jobs are mostly shallow.
scottlocklin 6y ago
I find it darkly amusing that people need a book to tell them to turn off IM tools, phone, email and other distractions for a while. I also find it darkly amusing that GTD is basically a system for dealing with IM tools, phone and email for people who feel they have no choice (they totally have a choice; it is a bullshit paradigm -even the president has plenty of goof off time). I have no place else to say so, but latency in zoom is annoying as fuck, and it totally didn't happen with twisted pair. Back in 2016 times, I insisted on twisted pair meetings. Even then, dipshits with ipotatos on wifi would find a way to fuck it up. Now a days, even I don't have access to twisted pair, so we're in a new dark age, similar to how old fashioned 7 gallon flush toilet bowls were vastly superior to the atrocities we have now. Most people only dimly aware of what has been taken away from us in the name of "progress."

seltzered_ 6y ago

FWIW, back in 2017 Venkatesh Rao looked at the distractions going on in the world and criticised 'deep work' in the process: https://breakingsmart.substack.com/p/life-in-the-time-of-choleric https://breakingsmart.substack.com/p/life-in-the-time-of-cho... "17/ In more sanguine times, this is easy in theory. You just log off from Facebook and Twitter, and put your head down and do what people like Cal Newport call “deep work.” 18/ I personally don’t believe in the idea of unplugging for "productivity" even in sanguine times, but in choleric times, it is a recipe for doing tone-deaf projects nobody cares about. 19/ Unless you work in pure mathematics or physics (and perhaps even then), your work is capable of creating meaning only if it is responsive to, and consciously situated in, its social milieu."

jeffxtreme 6y ago
That's an interesting piece. But I wonder if it's criticizing more the idea of "working in a vacuum" without taking into account what's going on in the world, as opposed to "focused work" (which imho, can still be work on something culturally aligned).
- EricE 6y ago
  "what's going on in the world" Just triggered a thought - what's so special about "what's going on in the world", especially when the majority of what people focus on with social media will never affect them and at best is the equivalent of local gossip. Only now, because of the wonders of the Internet and social media, mundane crap from the opposite side of the planet can now feel local too.
  - npsimons 6y ago
    > Just triggered a thought - what's so special about "what's going on in the world", especially when the majority of what people focus on with social media will never affect them and at best is the equivalent of local gossip. I came to this conclusion years and years ago, when I stopped watching TV news because of ads, but had the unintended side effect that I became more informed about the world (because I had more time to invest in reading true journalism). When I tell people I don't watch the news, they scoff and claim I'm ignorant. I ask them what the most important thing was in the news two weeks ago. They never can tell me.

johnorourke 6y ago

> I think ultimately it comes down to how one implements their GTD system In "Perfect Time-Based Productivity"[1], Francis Wade pulls this idea apart and discusses how you can create a system that is suited to the time-demands you currently have. eg. the system a CEO with days full of meetings needs is different to the postal worker whose time demands are fairly clear and dictated by someone else. The real gold in this book though, is about how you need a "trusted system" - ie. we all have multiple channels (work email, IMs, personal email, phone(s), family, colleagues, ...) creating demands on our time, and we each need a system suited to our own mind and our own siutation for remembering and organising those demands, which nobody else has permission to add to. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23600431-perfect-time-based-productivity https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23600431-perfect-time-ba...