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You might think it's more polished because you know the ecosystem better but pip does the same thing as gem & bundler, virtualenv the same as rvm and fabric the

You might think it's more polished because you know the ecosystem better but pip does the same thing as gem & bundler, virtualenv the same as rvm and fabric the same as capistrano. I have the same problem you have, I can't for the life of me see the point of learning Ruby and because of that I never give it a fair chance.

latch 15y ago
I totally think you can be right about my perspective. I can tell you my last expedition in Python land was bad. I ran into two problems: upgrading the version of Python that came on my Air and installing MongoEngine. For MongoEngine I used the instructions on their website "easy_install -U mongoengine". And after a bit of googling (I say a bit because a lot of people were having the same problem I was) I ended up installing PIP (via easy_install no less!) and then got into pathing problems. Having to use one package manager to install a better package manager isn't polish. Again, I can agree that this might all just be familiarity and comfort (or lack of in this case). I'm not so open to Django vs Rails though. I don't need to do a lot of struts to see how horrible it is (compared to anything). I don't need to do a lot of Django to see that it's behind Rails as a productive web frameworks. I'm not completely closed to the possibility that i'm just an idiot, but at this point it would likely take working with a guru for a couple weeks to change my mind.
- PandaMilk 15y ago
  I share a similar sentiment, last encounter with Ruby was fixing an ex-contractor's app which didn't use bundler and relied on a different version of ruby. The fact that I had to spend two days trying different versions of backward incompatible dependencies together didn't really endear me to Ruby or Rails. In contrast, there's a much higher emphasis on backwards compatibility in Python and a lot less on monkey-patching. As for Django vs Rails, don't have enough experience with Rails to comment. The little I time I've spent in Rails I didn't like, there was too much magic in there to properly see what was going on and the automatic imports don't help with that either. Btw, I went with MongoKit after running into some index troubles using MongoEngine, worked like a charm.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  To be fair, the problems you were having are OS X problems, not python. I used OS X and had the same problems (before that, I used windows, and it was much better). In the end, I installed Ubuntu and development has been a dream ever since. Hint: pip -E yourenvdir install yourpackage That will create a virtualenv and install the package there. You can just delete the env when you're done. You really shouldn't install things system-wide, generally...
  - lloeki 15y ago
    Personnally I've got no problems on OS X using in parallel: - stock python 2.6.1 and /Library/Python/2.6/site-packages - brew install python (which brings in python 2.7) - brew install python3 ... and a bunch of virtualenvs

latch 15y ago

I totally think you can be right about my perspective. I can tell you my last expedition in Python land was bad. I ran into two problems: upgrading the version of Python that came on my Air and installing MongoEngine. For MongoEngine I used the instructions on their website "easy_install -U mongoengine". And after a bit of googling (I say a bit because a lot of people were having the same problem I was) I ended up installing PIP (via easy_install no less!) and then got into pathing problems. Having to use one package manager to install a better package manager isn't polish. Again, I can agree that this might all just be familiarity and comfort (or lack of in this case). I'm not so open to Django vs Rails though. I don't need to do a lot of struts to see how horrible it is (compared to anything). I don't need to do a lot of Django to see that it's behind Rails as a productive web frameworks. I'm not completely closed to the possibility that i'm just an idiot, but at this point it would likely take working with a guru for a couple weeks to change my mind.

PandaMilk 15y ago
I share a similar sentiment, last encounter with Ruby was fixing an ex-contractor's app which didn't use bundler and relied on a different version of ruby. The fact that I had to spend two days trying different versions of backward incompatible dependencies together didn't really endear me to Ruby or Rails. In contrast, there's a much higher emphasis on backwards compatibility in Python and a lot less on monkey-patching. As for Django vs Rails, don't have enough experience with Rails to comment. The little I time I've spent in Rails I didn't like, there was too much magic in there to properly see what was going on and the automatic imports don't help with that either. Btw, I went with MongoKit after running into some index troubles using MongoEngine, worked like a charm.
StavrosK 15y ago
To be fair, the problems you were having are OS X problems, not python. I used OS X and had the same problems (before that, I used windows, and it was much better). In the end, I installed Ubuntu and development has been a dream ever since. Hint: pip -E yourenvdir install yourpackage That will create a virtualenv and install the package there. You can just delete the env when you're done. You really shouldn't install things system-wide, generally...
- lloeki 15y ago
  Personnally I've got no problems on OS X using in parallel: - stock python 2.6.1 and /Library/Python/2.6/site-packages - brew install python (which brings in python 2.7) - brew install python3 ... and a bunch of virtualenvs