8 ms·

I echo this. I’m an empty nester now but when I was raising kids (really early on) most of my friends were going to bars and didn’t understand the responsibilit

I echo this. I’m an empty nester now but when I was raising kids (really early on) most of my friends were going to bars and didn’t understand the responsibility. Now they are all having kids and looking to me for answers... like there’s a manual for kids. I felt the most pride in my life watching my step-daughter get her diploma. I, a masculine man who was taught to bottle it all up and stuff upper lip, cried like a baby. Those who have kids know. Those who don’t just will never understand.

TooRightKite 6y ago
That's nice, but why did your step daughter max the pride-meter instead of one of your own?
- Kluny 6y ago
  You're making a pretty big leap of assumption here. - he didn't say that he had biological kids - the step daughter is his own daughter, they aren't two different things - he didn't say that if he does have biological kids, that he didn't tear up at their graduation - he also didn't specify the ages of any of his kids, so there's no reason to assume that any others have graduated I'm curious as to where those assumptions came from?
  - TooRightKite 6y ago
    True, on second reading he says "raising kids", not having them.
    - treeman79 6y ago
      Have adopted from foster kid system. Pretty quick they are YOUR kid. Emotionally, It fills the same.
  - lallysingh 6y ago
    Also, it's not like we're born with DNA testers. There's no reason why our instincts actually know the difference between our biological kids and others we've been with, played the same role with, and raised the same way.
    - kortilla 6y ago
      Yes, but it depends on the age of the child when the relationship starts. My half sister was 13-ish about when my father married my mother (so my half sister’s step-mother). There was always an obvious difference in the way she bonded with my mom vs her biological mom. It’s still family, but more like an aunt at best. Despite never saying it, it’s pretty obvious my mother obviously views us differently as well having basically had no say in any of her step daughters formative years.
      - lallysingh 6y ago
        Of course. That makes perfect sense.
    - borroka 6y ago
      That has been found to be empirically not true. As always, there is a distribution (see Homicide by Daly and Wilson, for example). Now, if we know by instinct, smell, or just because we know...
      - lallysingh 6y ago
        An interesting study might be parents who later learn that their kids aren't actually theirs. Did they treat their kids differently than real biological children? All kinds of ethical issues, etc., but the data would be awesome.
        mqrs 6y ago
        Even if you could resolve the ethical issues, the only thing that a study would prove is that “people tend not to care for children that aren’t theirs”, and not “biological relation is necessary for a parent to be able to care for an adopted child”.
  - Harvey-Specter 6y ago
    > - he also didn't specify the ages of any of his kids, so there's no reason to assume that any others have graduated Well, he said he's an empty nester now. So...
  - DubiousPusher 6y ago
    > - the step daughter is his own daughter, they aren't two different things Thank you.
- gabereiser 6y ago
  This is what I'm talking about. There's no limit to the pride meter with kids. It's at 11 all the time.
- AussieWog93 6y ago
  I'm assuming he put in literal decades of blood, sweat and tears getting his step daughter to that point. How could you not be proud at the moment of payoff?
- nkrisc 6y ago
  Merely producing biological offspring doesn't make then your kid in any meaningful social sense; ask anyone with a parent who bailed real early. Being a child's parent makes them your child, whether they're biologically related to you or not. The biological relationship we have with our children is probably the least significant part of our relationship with them.
Elof 6y ago
I echo this as well. I'll also add that I made very little to no investment in my mental health until becoming a father. My perspective on who I want to be and what I need to do to get there changed practically overnight.
mqrs 6y ago
> Those who have kids know. Those who don’t just will never understand. Oh come on, I was agreeing with your comment until this totally unnecessary condescension. Part of being a mature person (which you imply to claim you are) is the knowledge that whatever you know isn’t necessarily special to your experience, and that other people may arrive at it through a different set of experiences. In this case, being proud of someone whom you love and whose well-being you actively contributed to isn’t an exclusive domain of parents or step-parents, but also of teachers and caretakers in orphanages who are capable of fulfilling the role. “Having a kid” isn’t a requirement here.
- tuatoru 6y ago
  For myself, having kids taught me things about myself that I'd have been happier never knowing. Not a better person, just happier. On balance the knowledge is worth it to me.
  - sizzle 6y ago
    That you'd be happier never knowing? I'm curious what some insights are you learned from your journey.
    - touisteur 6y ago
      Not the parent but the birth of my kids and their growing up 'caused' a cascade childhood trauma to bubble up. It was overwhelming for months and it messed me up for years, including bouts of depression and lots of trauma purges. Not the kids' doing, just some mirror effect, situations triggering and unlocking memories. And I feel it's even worse if you try alternative, progressive education methods, that give lots of agency to children, that focus on understanding the emotional state of mind, on accepting everyone's emotions without judgement, with infinite patience, the absolute minimum of coercion, and go so much in opposition to the way I was 'raised'. Not saying I agree with parent that I'd be happier for sure in some ways, but I sure didn't expect so much psychological pain in addition to the hard work of raising kids.

TooRightKite 6y ago

That's nice, but why did your step daughter max the pride-meter instead of one of your own?

Kluny 6y ago
You're making a pretty big leap of assumption here. - he didn't say that he had biological kids - the step daughter is his own daughter, they aren't two different things - he didn't say that if he does have biological kids, that he didn't tear up at their graduation - he also didn't specify the ages of any of his kids, so there's no reason to assume that any others have graduated I'm curious as to where those assumptions came from?
- TooRightKite 6y ago
  True, on second reading he says "raising kids", not having them.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    Have adopted from foster kid system. Pretty quick they are YOUR kid. Emotionally, It fills the same.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  Also, it's not like we're born with DNA testers. There's no reason why our instincts actually know the difference between our biological kids and others we've been with, played the same role with, and raised the same way.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    Yes, but it depends on the age of the child when the relationship starts. My half sister was 13-ish about when my father married my mother (so my half sister’s step-mother). There was always an obvious difference in the way she bonded with my mom vs her biological mom. It’s still family, but more like an aunt at best. Despite never saying it, it’s pretty obvious my mother obviously views us differently as well having basically had no say in any of her step daughters formative years.
    - lallysingh 6y ago
      Of course. That makes perfect sense.
  - borroka 6y ago
    That has been found to be empirically not true. As always, there is a distribution (see Homicide by Daly and Wilson, for example). Now, if we know by instinct, smell, or just because we know...
    - lallysingh 6y ago
      An interesting study might be parents who later learn that their kids aren't actually theirs. Did they treat their kids differently than real biological children? All kinds of ethical issues, etc., but the data would be awesome.
      - mqrs 6y ago
        Even if you could resolve the ethical issues, the only thing that a study would prove is that “people tend not to care for children that aren’t theirs”, and not “biological relation is necessary for a parent to be able to care for an adopted child”.
- Harvey-Specter 6y ago
  > - he also didn't specify the ages of any of his kids, so there's no reason to assume that any others have graduated Well, he said he's an empty nester now. So...
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  > - the step daughter is his own daughter, they aren't two different things Thank you.
gabereiser 6y ago
This is what I'm talking about. There's no limit to the pride meter with kids. It's at 11 all the time.
AussieWog93 6y ago
I'm assuming he put in literal decades of blood, sweat and tears getting his step daughter to that point. How could you not be proud at the moment of payoff?
nkrisc 6y ago
Merely producing biological offspring doesn't make then your kid in any meaningful social sense; ask anyone with a parent who bailed real early. Being a child's parent makes them your child, whether they're biologically related to you or not. The biological relationship we have with our children is probably the least significant part of our relationship with them.

Elof 6y ago

I echo this as well. I'll also add that I made very little to no investment in my mental health until becoming a father. My perspective on who I want to be and what I need to do to get there changed practically overnight.

mqrs 6y ago

> Those who have kids know. Those who don’t just will never understand. Oh come on, I was agreeing with your comment until this totally unnecessary condescension. Part of being a mature person (which you imply to claim you are) is the knowledge that whatever you know isn’t necessarily special to your experience, and that other people may arrive at it through a different set of experiences. In this case, being proud of someone whom you love and whose well-being you actively contributed to isn’t an exclusive domain of parents or step-parents, but also of teachers and caretakers in orphanages who are capable of fulfilling the role. “Having a kid” isn’t a requirement here.

tuatoru 6y ago
For myself, having kids taught me things about myself that I'd have been happier never knowing. Not a better person, just happier. On balance the knowledge is worth it to me.
- sizzle 6y ago
  That you'd be happier never knowing? I'm curious what some insights are you learned from your journey.
  - touisteur 6y ago
    Not the parent but the birth of my kids and their growing up 'caused' a cascade childhood trauma to bubble up. It was overwhelming for months and it messed me up for years, including bouts of depression and lots of trauma purges. Not the kids' doing, just some mirror effect, situations triggering and unlocking memories. And I feel it's even worse if you try alternative, progressive education methods, that give lots of agency to children, that focus on understanding the emotional state of mind, on accepting everyone's emotions without judgement, with infinite patience, the absolute minimum of coercion, and go so much in opposition to the way I was 'raised'. Not saying I agree with parent that I'd be happier for sure in some ways, but I sure didn't expect so much psychological pain in addition to the hard work of raising kids.