4 ms·

"We are engaged" is passive though. Specifically its form is passive: be + past participle. But its meaning is more reflexive than anything else. I don't know w

by 1-more 6y ago

"We are engaged" is passive though. Specifically its form is passive: be + past participle. But its meaning is more reflexive than anything else. I don't know what the subject of that sentence would be in an active construction. Maybe "We have engaged ourselves in a great…" or possibly a bit more poetic "Fate has engaged us in a…". But this really speaks to your original point that a passive _construction_ (not necessarily meaning) does not always hide information the reader needs.

a1369209993 6y ago
> I don't know what the subject of that sentence would be in an active construction. Wouldn't that just be "Now we engage in a great civil war, [...]"?
- Wistar 6y ago
  In a great civil war we now engage.
gweinberg 6y ago
Yeah, if a couple really wanted to avoid the passive voice, instead of saying "we got engaged" they should say "we engaged each other". But I don't think that really conveys the intended meaning. The same thing is true of of the Lincoln speech, in a somewhat different way. Does anyone really need to be warned that they are using the passive voice? Does anyone actually do that by accident?
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  I think people use passive voice unintentionally or thoughtlessly. Not sure if you'd call that "by accident." I see it quite often in business writing, I think people fall into it because it's a way to avoid taking responsibility. "It has been decided" vs. "I have decided." I would not say that it's always intentional.
- mjrbrennan 6y ago
  > Does anyone really need to be warned that they are using the passive voice? Does anyone actually do that by accident? Yes, all the time. I write a lot and still fall into the trap, and it is hard not to do it sometimes especially if you were only introduced to the concept later in life. I try hard not to use the passive voice, but there are times when I think it is acceptable, and there are occasions where the alternative is more confusing. The quoted speech "Now we are engaged in a great civil war..." sounds perfectly fine to me! Honestly, I have trouble thinking of an alternative sometimes, even when I can identify a passive voice sentence.

by 1-more 6y ago

a1369209993 6y ago

> I don't know what the subject of that sentence would be in an active construction. Wouldn't that just be "Now we engage in a great civil war, [...]"?

Wistar 6y ago
In a great civil war we now engage.

gweinberg 6y ago

Yeah, if a couple really wanted to avoid the passive voice, instead of saying "we got engaged" they should say "we engaged each other". But I don't think that really conveys the intended meaning. The same thing is true of of the Lincoln speech, in a somewhat different way. Does anyone really need to be warned that they are using the passive voice? Does anyone actually do that by accident?

throwaway201103 6y ago
I think people use passive voice unintentionally or thoughtlessly. Not sure if you'd call that "by accident." I see it quite often in business writing, I think people fall into it because it's a way to avoid taking responsibility. "It has been decided" vs. "I have decided." I would not say that it's always intentional.
mjrbrennan 6y ago
> Does anyone really need to be warned that they are using the passive voice? Does anyone actually do that by accident? Yes, all the time. I write a lot and still fall into the trap, and it is hard not to do it sometimes especially if you were only introduced to the concept later in life. I try hard not to use the passive voice, but there are times when I think it is acceptable, and there are occasions where the alternative is more confusing. The quoted speech "Now we are engaged in a great civil war..." sounds perfectly fine to me! Honestly, I have trouble thinking of an alternative sometimes, even when I can identify a passive voice sentence.