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A counter point to consider - and one that I consider to be a little more rational - is that - what if in the messaging to get people to wear masks - we have in

by eej71 6y ago

A counter point to consider - and one that I consider to be a little more rational - is that - what if in the messaging to get people to wear masks - we have inadvertantly encouraged riskier behavior? As an analogy, I'd explain it like this. What if in the process to encourage people to wear seatbelts, drivers who did that then felt entitled to drive even faster thus resulting in even worse accidents and more frequent ones at that. Of course, no driver would actually think like that. While I wear my mask, I do wonder about its overall effectiveness especially if in total we all engage in riskier behavior that we wouldn't have otherwise if we simply lived with the basic fear that you have to stay away from everyone. Masks "help", but maybe they "help" most by thinking of them as not a help at all. It's a tough paradox to encode into public health messaging.

roywiggins 6y ago
Everyone wears masks in NYC and there was no COVID uptick until the last month or so. even if it encourages risky behavior, there's no evidence that it does it enough to translate to higher spread overall, which is what matters. As long as the net impact doesn't increase transmission, they're not a problem.
- telcal 6y ago
  "Everyone" wears masks in NYC? I don't know where exactly you're talking about but that's definitely not true. Certain neighborhoods are better than others but even so there are tons who don't.
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    There are neighborhoods that are much less mask-compliant than others, but in my day-to-day, the vast majority of people I see are in masks. It's certainly enough to say that wearing masks doesn't make COVID spread worse at a population level. The worst neighborhoods for COVID over the summer were ones that were known for poor mask compliance, anyway.
gustavo_duarte 6y ago
This is an interesting argument, and it's hard to say anything without data, which would be hard to measure imo. As a counter, my intuition is that masks also remind people of the risks and actually encourage safe behavior. I feel this in myself, a greater awareness of the pandemic, a nudge towards being more careful. Extending your analogy, it's as if the seatbelt reminded people that there are some pretty grisly accidents out there, and maybe they should take it easy. Both effects probably exist, not sure what wins out, and how much it matters.
foogazi 6y ago
> Of course, no driver would actually think like that. There’s your answer then fwiw, I wear a mask when I HAVE to go out for groceries, and avoid going out on unnecessary errands (shopping, dining out)
aaronbrethorst 6y ago
what if in the messaging to get people to wear masks - we have inadvertantly encouraged riskier behavior? It doesn't. https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1259865394044690433 https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1259865394044690433
guenthert 6y ago
I don't know about seat-belts or how this relates to mask wearing, but I was astonished when I learned that my car insurance (some ten years ago) was unwilling to give me a lower rate based on my car being equipped with ABS. Their stated reasoning was, that ABS led to riskier driver behavior and no net safety gain.
mensetmanusman 6y ago
This is called risk compensation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

by eej71 6y ago

roywiggins 6y ago

Everyone wears masks in NYC and there was no COVID uptick until the last month or so. even if it encourages risky behavior, there's no evidence that it does it enough to translate to higher spread overall, which is what matters. As long as the net impact doesn't increase transmission, they're not a problem.

telcal 6y ago
"Everyone" wears masks in NYC? I don't know where exactly you're talking about but that's definitely not true. Certain neighborhoods are better than others but even so there are tons who don't.
- roywiggins 6y ago
  There are neighborhoods that are much less mask-compliant than others, but in my day-to-day, the vast majority of people I see are in masks. It's certainly enough to say that wearing masks doesn't make COVID spread worse at a population level. The worst neighborhoods for COVID over the summer were ones that were known for poor mask compliance, anyway.

gustavo_duarte 6y ago

This is an interesting argument, and it's hard to say anything without data, which would be hard to measure imo. As a counter, my intuition is that masks also remind people of the risks and actually encourage safe behavior. I feel this in myself, a greater awareness of the pandemic, a nudge towards being more careful. Extending your analogy, it's as if the seatbelt reminded people that there are some pretty grisly accidents out there, and maybe they should take it easy. Both effects probably exist, not sure what wins out, and how much it matters.

foogazi 6y ago

> Of course, no driver would actually think like that. There’s your answer then fwiw, I wear a mask when I HAVE to go out for groceries, and avoid going out on unnecessary errands (shopping, dining out)

aaronbrethorst 6y ago

what if in the messaging to get people to wear masks - we have inadvertantly encouraged riskier behavior? It doesn't. https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1259865394044690433 https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1259865394044690433

guenthert 6y ago

I don't know about seat-belts or how this relates to mask wearing, but I was astonished when I learned that my car insurance (some ten years ago) was unwilling to give me a lower rate based on my car being equipped with ABS. Their stated reasoning was, that ABS led to riskier driver behavior and no net safety gain.

mensetmanusman 6y ago

This is called risk compensation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation