5 ms·

Amazing way Chinese recycle millions of cellphones every year

100 points by pitdesi 15y ago

angusgr 15y ago
It's a shame that most e-waste recycling in China is not as clean and neat as this. Case in point, the town of Guiyu: http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_182214... http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n9/htdocs/ctrl.php# http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n9/htdocs/ctrl.php# (Don't get me wrong, responsible e-waste recycling is to be lauded and encouraged - it's all the more important because of places like Guiyu. I'm not too surprised Nokia choose to focus on one angle while not really mentioning the other one, though.)
- angusgr 15y ago
  most e-waste recycling in China is not as clean and neat as this Now I come to think about it, the original blog post shows 3 people working hot air desoldering stations without any visible ventilation, and with only one wearing a thin respirator. So it's probably not all that healthy for the workers even there. At least in the photos I've seen of Chinese electronics assembly factories, the workers have extraction units for their soldering stations.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    Do desoldering stations actually generate enough fumes to be comparable to actual soldering? When I do hot-air rework, I rarely see any smoke at all, unless I have just put a lot of flux down.
    - angusgr 15y ago
      Yeah, you might be right. My understanding is the bulk of (at least visible) fumes when soldering are from flux, but there are other fumes present. When you're not temperature controlled then you probably have other things melting and fuming up as well though, depending on how deft you are.
- angusgr 15y ago
  Going over the comments on the Nokia post again, it seems like the situation is yet more complex, maybe the Guiyu stories are not the majority case that it's been made out to be: http://www.motherboard.tv/2011/3/26/e-waste-recycling-exports-are-good http://www.motherboard.tv/2011/3/26/e-waste-recycling-export... http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448 http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448 Either way, this makes for really interesting reading.
sliverstorm 15y ago
This is fantastic. Disassembled all the way down to the capacitors... If these parts are resold and reused, I don't think anyone could hope for better, short of a way to decompose and reuse PCB, or at the very least harvest the copper.
- unwind 15y ago
  Tbe only thing that worries me if that if these components are sold as new, that would be a bit unpleasant. Sure it's recycling, but it's dishonest. Of course, I'm not saying that the pictured establishments in particular should be suspected of any such deviousness (I don't know them at all). Also, I really don't want to sound prejudiced, I've just read about fake components coming out of China sometimes, and it seems the step to fake "new" components isn't very far-fetched.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    Well, you get what you pay for. Buy reputable brands through reputable dealers and pay a few extra cents for high quality parts, and you'll probably be ok.
    - colanderman 15y ago
      "Probably" is the key word. Counterfieters do an awful good job at making themselves and the product look reputable, and China could use some work on trademark enforcement. cf. the many stories of "empty" big-name ICs from Chinese distributors.
      - sliverstorm 15y ago
        It's all about the supply chain you use. Buy from an authorized reseller; they have a vested interest in selling you the real thing. Tangentially, notice the counterfeit IC's from China are mostly storage (unless something has changed that I wasn't aware of) The margins on faked storage are pretty good. The margins on SMT capacitors? I can buy authentic, extremely high quality capacitors on DigiKey for $0.07.
latch 15y ago
Garbage sorters in HK isn't a sight I've 100% gotten used to. It is extremely common (somewhere around 1 every 2KM you walk - and those are just the ones you catch actually at a garbage). They are mostly after cardboard from what I've seen - or maybe that's just what they find the most of. As a general rule, they are all old and don't look particularly healthy. But they are hard working. I feel equal measures of shame and pride in humanity when I see one. It's actually an emotional experience for me for some weird reason. I wish I knew more about them. What they earn, how long they work, how the system works (they seem to have local drop off centers which all have floor scales - so it must be paid by weight, and then it gets shipped off from there by god knows who).
- dualogy 15y ago
  I've seen them too... on the one hand maybe they don't look as "healthy" as a Calvin Klein model. On the other hand, especially when watching the older ones -- they sure have kept their mobility and muscles in a working condition throughout the years doing what they do and they make me think of the majority of old folks back home whose bodies are often deteriorating and falling apart from NOT getting any physical exercise, from spending hours in front of the telly for years and from feeding themselves pure toxic junk food for decades. Well... it's a big world out there.
  - latch 15y ago
    I've had the same thoughts. It's impressive to spend time in Asia and see how active the elderly are. However, I'm not sure this type of "be active or don't eat" activity is socially progressive (which is the part that shames me). I also disagree that they are "mobile" and "muscled". Most have obvious joint/bone problems. I'm really not sure that this type/level of physical labor is any better than the exact opposite of no physical labor. What is inspiring though is that these people will do it because they have to. No shame, no pride.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    "especially when watching the older ones" A relevant question would be how old they really are, though. Maybe they only look old.
ck2 15y ago
They are screwed when their middle-class gets big enough to cause inflation and labor is no longer cheap enough to abuse people like that. They'll have to double the size of their prisons and use prison labor, and yet we'll keep buying.
stretchwithme 15y ago
Someday, robots will be doing this with virtually everything tossed away. And they'll be taking apart our old landfills too.
- known 15y ago
  http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm
m0wfo 15y ago
Sounds like Nokia palming off its RoHS obligations to a cottage economy which luckily for them seems to be thriving. You couldn't do this in Europe or America.
- shareme 15y ago
  You are wrong.. Both co-founders of Apple were part-time employed in such adventures in the USA..Steve Jobs was in-fact a junk yard IC chip seller. Even now there are still re-used chip sellers in the USA who do this in that they sort through used chips to find those to sell that are in demand.
known 15y ago
Everything is possible in China because of wage slavery http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-tech-apple-workers-forced-to-sign-no-suicide-pledge/20110504.htm http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-tech-...
- jdietrich 15y ago
  The suicide rate amongst Foxconn workers is dramatically lower than that of China overall. Most of the population of China are peasant farmers, living in huts with no running water or electricity. A factory dormitory looks pretty unpleasant to us, but for most of the people living in them it's a big step up. Do you have a better idea for how to lift 800,000,000 people out of poverty?
  - known 15y ago
    Evenly distribute $3 trillion forex to 800,000,000 people. http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-heres-what-china-can-buy-with-3-trn-forex/20110504.htm http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-heres...
JoeAltmaier 15y ago
Yay! Another variety of sweatshop. Those chips have to be worth, what, 0.02?
- noonespecial 15y ago
  Arm cpus and flash memory chips are worth a bunch more than 0.02 and they are easy to reuse. I've desoldered a few myself for projects. I've even rescued the data on a flash chip by pulling it from the phone. Its easy and well worth it even for me the rich westerner. I'm not sure how valuable a mixed bin of SM capacitors are, but I assure you, if they weren't making something from them, they wouldn't do it.
  - JoeAltmaier 15y ago
    Their boss is making money, sure. They are getting paid something I suppose. I really have no idea whether its a sweatshop or not. But I get suspicious when people spend hours a day on activities of marginal utility.
    - angusgr 15y ago
      Apparently some of these jobs can pay quite well: http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448 http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448
DuckPaddle 15y ago
Recycle is nice until your electronic brakes fail because the manufacturer was sold these parts as new. Old HK saying "Only the con man is real."

100 points by pitdesi 15y ago

It's a shame that most e-waste recycling in China is not as clean and neat as this. Case in point, the town of Guiyu: http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822148,00.html http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_182214... http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n9/htdocs/ctrl.php# http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n9/htdocs/ctrl.php# (Don't get me wrong, responsible e-waste recycling is to be lauded and encouraged - it's all the more important because of places like Guiyu. I'm not too surprised Nokia choose to focus on one angle while not really mentioning the other one, though.)

angusgr 15y ago
most e-waste recycling in China is not as clean and neat as this Now I come to think about it, the original blog post shows 3 people working hot air desoldering stations without any visible ventilation, and with only one wearing a thin respirator. So it's probably not all that healthy for the workers even there. At least in the photos I've seen of Chinese electronics assembly factories, the workers have extraction units for their soldering stations.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  Do desoldering stations actually generate enough fumes to be comparable to actual soldering? When I do hot-air rework, I rarely see any smoke at all, unless I have just put a lot of flux down.
  - angusgr 15y ago
    Yeah, you might be right. My understanding is the bulk of (at least visible) fumes when soldering are from flux, but there are other fumes present. When you're not temperature controlled then you probably have other things melting and fuming up as well though, depending on how deft you are.
angusgr 15y ago
Going over the comments on the Nokia post again, it seems like the situation is yet more complex, maybe the Guiyu stories are not the majority case that it's been made out to be: http://www.motherboard.tv/2011/3/26/e-waste-recycling-exports-are-good http://www.motherboard.tv/2011/3/26/e-waste-recycling-export... http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448 http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448 Either way, this makes for really interesting reading.

sliverstorm 15y ago

This is fantastic. Disassembled all the way down to the capacitors... If these parts are resold and reused, I don't think anyone could hope for better, short of a way to decompose and reuse PCB, or at the very least harvest the copper.

unwind 15y ago
Tbe only thing that worries me if that if these components are sold as new, that would be a bit unpleasant. Sure it's recycling, but it's dishonest. Of course, I'm not saying that the pictured establishments in particular should be suspected of any such deviousness (I don't know them at all). Also, I really don't want to sound prejudiced, I've just read about fake components coming out of China sometimes, and it seems the step to fake "new" components isn't very far-fetched.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  Well, you get what you pay for. Buy reputable brands through reputable dealers and pay a few extra cents for high quality parts, and you'll probably be ok.
  - colanderman 15y ago
    "Probably" is the key word. Counterfieters do an awful good job at making themselves and the product look reputable, and China could use some work on trademark enforcement. cf. the many stories of "empty" big-name ICs from Chinese distributors.
    - sliverstorm 15y ago
      It's all about the supply chain you use. Buy from an authorized reseller; they have a vested interest in selling you the real thing. Tangentially, notice the counterfeit IC's from China are mostly storage (unless something has changed that I wasn't aware of) The margins on faked storage are pretty good. The margins on SMT capacitors? I can buy authentic, extremely high quality capacitors on DigiKey for $0.07.

latch 15y ago

Garbage sorters in HK isn't a sight I've 100% gotten used to. It is extremely common (somewhere around 1 every 2KM you walk - and those are just the ones you catch actually at a garbage). They are mostly after cardboard from what I've seen - or maybe that's just what they find the most of. As a general rule, they are all old and don't look particularly healthy. But they are hard working. I feel equal measures of shame and pride in humanity when I see one. It's actually an emotional experience for me for some weird reason. I wish I knew more about them. What they earn, how long they work, how the system works (they seem to have local drop off centers which all have floor scales - so it must be paid by weight, and then it gets shipped off from there by god knows who).

dualogy 15y ago
I've seen them too... on the one hand maybe they don't look as "healthy" as a Calvin Klein model. On the other hand, especially when watching the older ones -- they sure have kept their mobility and muscles in a working condition throughout the years doing what they do and they make me think of the majority of old folks back home whose bodies are often deteriorating and falling apart from NOT getting any physical exercise, from spending hours in front of the telly for years and from feeding themselves pure toxic junk food for decades. Well... it's a big world out there.
- latch 15y ago
  I've had the same thoughts. It's impressive to spend time in Asia and see how active the elderly are. However, I'm not sure this type of "be active or don't eat" activity is socially progressive (which is the part that shames me). I also disagree that they are "mobile" and "muscled". Most have obvious joint/bone problems. I'm really not sure that this type/level of physical labor is any better than the exact opposite of no physical labor. What is inspiring though is that these people will do it because they have to. No shame, no pride.
- Tichy 15y ago
  "especially when watching the older ones" A relevant question would be how old they really are, though. Maybe they only look old.

ck2 15y ago

They are screwed when their middle-class gets big enough to cause inflation and labor is no longer cheap enough to abuse people like that. They'll have to double the size of their prisons and use prison labor, and yet we'll keep buying.

stretchwithme 15y ago

Someday, robots will be doing this with virtually everything tossed away. And they'll be taking apart our old landfills too.

known 15y ago
http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-freedom.htm

m0wfo 15y ago

Sounds like Nokia palming off its RoHS obligations to a cottage economy which luckily for them seems to be thriving. You couldn't do this in Europe or America.

shareme 15y ago
You are wrong.. Both co-founders of Apple were part-time employed in such adventures in the USA..Steve Jobs was in-fact a junk yard IC chip seller. Even now there are still re-used chip sellers in the USA who do this in that they sort through used chips to find those to sell that are in demand.

known 15y ago

Everything is possible in China because of wage slavery http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-tech-apple-workers-forced-to-sign-no-suicide-pledge/20110504.htm http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-tech-...

jdietrich 15y ago
The suicide rate amongst Foxconn workers is dramatically lower than that of China overall. Most of the population of China are peasant farmers, living in huts with no running water or electricity. A factory dormitory looks pretty unpleasant to us, but for most of the people living in them it's a big step up. Do you have a better idea for how to lift 800,000,000 people out of poverty?
- known 15y ago
  Evenly distribute $3 trillion forex to 800,000,000 people. http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-heres-what-china-can-buy-with-3-trn-forex/20110504.htm http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-heres...

JoeAltmaier 15y ago

Yay! Another variety of sweatshop. Those chips have to be worth, what, 0.02?

noonespecial 15y ago
Arm cpus and flash memory chips are worth a bunch more than 0.02 and they are easy to reuse. I've desoldered a few myself for projects. I've even rescued the data on a flash chip by pulling it from the phone. Its easy and well worth it even for me the rich westerner. I'm not sure how valuable a mixed bin of SM capacitors are, but I assure you, if they weren't making something from them, they wouldn't do it.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  Their boss is making money, sure. They are getting paid something I suppose. I really have no idea whether its a sweatshop or not. But I get suspicious when people spend hours a day on activities of marginal utility.
  - angusgr 15y ago
    Apparently some of these jobs can pay quite well: http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448 http://shanghaiscrap.com/?p=6448

DuckPaddle 15y ago

Recycle is nice until your electronic brakes fail because the manufacturer was sold these parts as new. Old HK saying "Only the con man is real."