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My personal experience as a dad of a 16 month old: new, intense anxiety about what the future will look like for my child.

kkwteh 6y ago
Me too. Should I push them to win the shitty meritocracy tournament like I did? Or should I encourage them to follow their dreams and perhaps be more fulfilled? I'm leaning toward the latter.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I don’t know what fulfilled means, but my priority is to equip them with the abilities needed to shelter, feed, and otherwise obtain necessities for themselves. Which, for many people, ends up being participating in the “meritocracy tournament” to secure cash flow. But I let them know what the rules and parameters of the game are, and possible consequences of various actions. After that, it’s up to them to figure out their goals.
  - kkwteh 6y ago
    To put it another way, should I be like the infamous Tiger Mom and push my child to conform and get straight As, potentially with dire consequences, or should I develop her interests organically, hoping that they’ll find an unconventional path, fully knowing that they’ll be less likely to have a comfortable life? It’s a dilemma for me.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I think there’s a happy medium between Tiger Mom and a hippy parent that doesn’t instill survival skills. You don’t need straight As and 3 extracurriculars to earn money, but you also can’t explore your interests all day and follow your passion to secure your family’s future. I would try to suss out what kind of life they want. If they want to jet set and have fancy things, they need to do the things that get them high pay. If they’re okay clocking in and out and going home without stress and maximizing enjoyment in 20s, maybe do a trade or something. If they don’t care about having roommates for the rest of their life and what kind of school district their kids are in, then they can study art or do whatever they feel like. They should also be made aware that their potential mates will be affected by their lifestyle choices as well.
- mads 6y ago
  It’s a rigged game. As long as they are aware, they won’t be disappointed
softwaredoug 6y ago
this only gets worse when they get older. A dangerous thing that can happen is when you over-identify with your kids. Like being the overbearing sports-parent that pushes their kid to succeed because you see it as an extension of your success. I think every parent runs into this to some degree. I have to remind myself they are different people with their own wants, needs, values, and criteria for what "success" means to them. Not an extension of myself. Yet it's hard to balance avoiding over-identifying with the "I want to keep you out of obvious danger". Like "Don't go 200K in debt for a poor college education" or things like drug and alcohol usage at too young an age. The downside risks for some of these things are huge.
- stared 6y ago
  I find "On Children" by Kahlil Gibran (https://poets.org/poem/children-1 https://poets.org/poem/children-1) a wise guidance: Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, Which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, But seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
- Mmrnmhrm 6y ago
  If you have any resources on how to manage anxiety please bring them on. My old son has a mild development impairment, I am the sole bread earner, and we have no family support (we live abroad). Anxiety is crippling me to the point of rupture.
  - softwaredoug 6y ago
    Honestly, one of the biggest tools I think is in-person school. Which lets the kids get their own space and cultivate their own lives away from parents in a supportive place. Sadly that's been taken from us until Covid is resolved. It multiplies the anxiety quite a bit for everyone: kids & parents. It's hard for us not to be overbearing to our 9 year old about virtual school. It's hard on him, and he's frustrated. It's hard on us because it's time consuming... Other than that, I strongly believe in paying well for good childcare and babysitting so you can take breaks. I also believe in sharing your passions with your kids, and focusing on quality time rather than quantity or things that don't interest either of you. This can be surprising. My kids love camping, which surprised me. I love camping - my wife doesn't. My kids are meh on coding, they do it, but it doesn't grab them like it grabs me... Focus your career choices carefully as your time on them is limited. I have found having kids, due to time crunch, has caused me to really focus more on what I really care about from work. Don't let others take advantage of you to do BS work, focus on what you want to do on a day-to-day basis that's fulfilling for you if you're able. I think sometimes parents fall into the trap of only focusing on $$ when really it's a good idea to focus on how much value you yourself are getting out of your more limited time investment
wsc981 6y ago
My daughter is now 3.5 years old, but I can't say I experienced the same. I believe the future of my daughter is bright. I guess your anxiety could be based on the location where your living? I believe my daughter will be able to find plenty of great opportunities in her life and I'll be able to give her a very nice start compared to most people around where I live (Thailand). I have to admit I am also not worried for things like covid and climate change, so if these things worry you a lot, I guess that might be part of your anxiety.
- mqrs 6y ago
  > I am also not worried for things like covid and climate change Would you care to explain why?
  - wsc981 6y ago
    > Would you care to explain why? I'm not sure if my explanation would be fruitful here. I realise most people on HackerNews likely disagree with me on these issues. I am not here to convince people of my views on these issues. I respect anyones opinions on these matters. But since you asked, in short: - I really don't believe COVID-19 is as dangerous as is projected in the media - I believe the human influence on climate change is much less than what most people tend to believe My views are based on my own research on these issues. If you'd asked me what issues I'm worried about, it's issues like pollution in the general sense (e.g. like plastics in the sea) or human population growth.
    - ravenstine 6y ago
      People with your perspective shouldn't be downvoted when merely being asked their honest opinion. It really goes to show the state of both HN and intellectualism in general.
    - klmadfejno 6y ago
      > - I believe the human influence on climate change is much less than what most people tend to believe I disagree with this with a resentment towards someone saying its a research based view. Putting that aside, however, why would believing climate change isn't human influenced would make things more palatable? In the vaguest sense, that sounds to me like it would be worse, because then we can't possibly do anything to halt it.
bluedays 6y ago
I experienced the same. I wound up changing my whole life because of it. Wound up quitting a career, getting involved in IT, going back to college, getting straight As when I had always flunked out before, found myself in an honor society, got recommended for tree internships within the past couple of months. Literally changed my life. Makes me think I should have had a kid sooner.
sudeepj 6y ago
One of the most important things I feel is to make your child ready for the real world (and not only in terms of education, values, profession, etc) but more from mental make-up: 1. How to handle success 2. Dealing with failures
bagacrap 6y ago
The way I look at it is that I need my kids to be super smart, hard working, and principled to help extricate humanity from the hole it's currently digging itself into. I can think of many ways the future could suck more than the present, but in none of these scenarios will it be better off without my children, assuming I raise them well.
- crpatino 6y ago
  I personally believe that digging itself into a hole (and eventually climbing back up) is the status quo for Humanity. It has been done multiple times before, and doubtlessly it will continue to be the case once our current trials are nothing but fading footnotes in some ancient history book. With that in mind, I don't think it is healthy for a child to grow up believing Humanity is fixable or, even worse, that it is their destiny and their duty to fix it.
onemoresoop 6y ago
You know, I've had some bouts of that but I talked myself out of thinking too far into the future. Our children are better off if we don't have anxiety, if we are present and somewhat confident. I am aware the situation is not good but it really won't help at all by being anxious.
pavel_lishin 6y ago
Everyone's talking like they're worried about their kid not turning out like them, or that they'll accidentally vicariously live their life through their kid, or that their kid won't be emotionally equipped to be an adult. I'm worried that the planet will be inhospitable to human life, and that my kid will have to scramble for rat corpses in the shadows of collapsed skyscrapers.

kkwteh 6y ago

Me too. Should I push them to win the shitty meritocracy tournament like I did? Or should I encourage them to follow their dreams and perhaps be more fulfilled? I'm leaning toward the latter.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I don’t know what fulfilled means, but my priority is to equip them with the abilities needed to shelter, feed, and otherwise obtain necessities for themselves. Which, for many people, ends up being participating in the “meritocracy tournament” to secure cash flow. But I let them know what the rules and parameters of the game are, and possible consequences of various actions. After that, it’s up to them to figure out their goals.
- kkwteh 6y ago
  To put it another way, should I be like the infamous Tiger Mom and push my child to conform and get straight As, potentially with dire consequences, or should I develop her interests organically, hoping that they’ll find an unconventional path, fully knowing that they’ll be less likely to have a comfortable life? It’s a dilemma for me.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I think there’s a happy medium between Tiger Mom and a hippy parent that doesn’t instill survival skills. You don’t need straight As and 3 extracurriculars to earn money, but you also can’t explore your interests all day and follow your passion to secure your family’s future. I would try to suss out what kind of life they want. If they want to jet set and have fancy things, they need to do the things that get them high pay. If they’re okay clocking in and out and going home without stress and maximizing enjoyment in 20s, maybe do a trade or something. If they don’t care about having roommates for the rest of their life and what kind of school district their kids are in, then they can study art or do whatever they feel like. They should also be made aware that their potential mates will be affected by their lifestyle choices as well.
mads 6y ago
It’s a rigged game. As long as they are aware, they won’t be disappointed

softwaredoug 6y ago

this only gets worse when they get older. A dangerous thing that can happen is when you over-identify with your kids. Like being the overbearing sports-parent that pushes their kid to succeed because you see it as an extension of your success. I think every parent runs into this to some degree. I have to remind myself they are different people with their own wants, needs, values, and criteria for what "success" means to them. Not an extension of myself. Yet it's hard to balance avoiding over-identifying with the "I want to keep you out of obvious danger". Like "Don't go 200K in debt for a poor college education" or things like drug and alcohol usage at too young an age. The downside risks for some of these things are huge.

stared 6y ago
I find "On Children" by Kahlil Gibran (https://poets.org/poem/children-1 https://poets.org/poem/children-1) a wise guidance: Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, Which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, But seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
Mmrnmhrm 6y ago
If you have any resources on how to manage anxiety please bring them on. My old son has a mild development impairment, I am the sole bread earner, and we have no family support (we live abroad). Anxiety is crippling me to the point of rupture.
- softwaredoug 6y ago
  Honestly, one of the biggest tools I think is in-person school. Which lets the kids get their own space and cultivate their own lives away from parents in a supportive place. Sadly that's been taken from us until Covid is resolved. It multiplies the anxiety quite a bit for everyone: kids & parents. It's hard for us not to be overbearing to our 9 year old about virtual school. It's hard on him, and he's frustrated. It's hard on us because it's time consuming... Other than that, I strongly believe in paying well for good childcare and babysitting so you can take breaks. I also believe in sharing your passions with your kids, and focusing on quality time rather than quantity or things that don't interest either of you. This can be surprising. My kids love camping, which surprised me. I love camping - my wife doesn't. My kids are meh on coding, they do it, but it doesn't grab them like it grabs me... Focus your career choices carefully as your time on them is limited. I have found having kids, due to time crunch, has caused me to really focus more on what I really care about from work. Don't let others take advantage of you to do BS work, focus on what you want to do on a day-to-day basis that's fulfilling for you if you're able. I think sometimes parents fall into the trap of only focusing on $$ when really it's a good idea to focus on how much value you yourself are getting out of your more limited time investment

wsc981 6y ago

My daughter is now 3.5 years old, but I can't say I experienced the same. I believe the future of my daughter is bright. I guess your anxiety could be based on the location where your living? I believe my daughter will be able to find plenty of great opportunities in her life and I'll be able to give her a very nice start compared to most people around where I live (Thailand). I have to admit I am also not worried for things like covid and climate change, so if these things worry you a lot, I guess that might be part of your anxiety.

mqrs 6y ago
> I am also not worried for things like covid and climate change Would you care to explain why?
- wsc981 6y ago
  > Would you care to explain why? I'm not sure if my explanation would be fruitful here. I realise most people on HackerNews likely disagree with me on these issues. I am not here to convince people of my views on these issues. I respect anyones opinions on these matters. But since you asked, in short: - I really don't believe COVID-19 is as dangerous as is projected in the media - I believe the human influence on climate change is much less than what most people tend to believe My views are based on my own research on these issues. If you'd asked me what issues I'm worried about, it's issues like pollution in the general sense (e.g. like plastics in the sea) or human population growth.
  - ravenstine 6y ago
    People with your perspective shouldn't be downvoted when merely being asked their honest opinion. It really goes to show the state of both HN and intellectualism in general.
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    > - I believe the human influence on climate change is much less than what most people tend to believe I disagree with this with a resentment towards someone saying its a research based view. Putting that aside, however, why would believing climate change isn't human influenced would make things more palatable? In the vaguest sense, that sounds to me like it would be worse, because then we can't possibly do anything to halt it.

bluedays 6y ago

I experienced the same. I wound up changing my whole life because of it. Wound up quitting a career, getting involved in IT, going back to college, getting straight As when I had always flunked out before, found myself in an honor society, got recommended for tree internships within the past couple of months. Literally changed my life. Makes me think I should have had a kid sooner.

sudeepj 6y ago

One of the most important things I feel is to make your child ready for the real world (and not only in terms of education, values, profession, etc) but more from mental make-up: 1. How to handle success 2. Dealing with failures

bagacrap 6y ago

The way I look at it is that I need my kids to be super smart, hard working, and principled to help extricate humanity from the hole it's currently digging itself into. I can think of many ways the future could suck more than the present, but in none of these scenarios will it be better off without my children, assuming I raise them well.

crpatino 6y ago
I personally believe that digging itself into a hole (and eventually climbing back up) is the status quo for Humanity. It has been done multiple times before, and doubtlessly it will continue to be the case once our current trials are nothing but fading footnotes in some ancient history book. With that in mind, I don't think it is healthy for a child to grow up believing Humanity is fixable or, even worse, that it is their destiny and their duty to fix it.

onemoresoop 6y ago

You know, I've had some bouts of that but I talked myself out of thinking too far into the future. Our children are better off if we don't have anxiety, if we are present and somewhat confident. I am aware the situation is not good but it really won't help at all by being anxious.

pavel_lishin 6y ago

Everyone's talking like they're worried about their kid not turning out like them, or that they'll accidentally vicariously live their life through their kid, or that their kid won't be emotionally equipped to be an adult. I'm worried that the planet will be inhospitable to human life, and that my kid will have to scramble for rat corpses in the shadows of collapsed skyscrapers.