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Firefox made DoH to Cloudflare the default, right? This is not responsive to my argument that it will impact most Firefox users. Most people won't change their

Firefox made DoH to Cloudflare the default, right? This is not responsive to my argument that it will impact most Firefox users. Most people won't change their defaults. Defaults matter. And that goes double when you need to dink with your own DNS server to override this crap.

danShumway 6y ago
Firefox made DoH default to Cloudflare, but that's because Firefox was the browser that pushed DoH the hardest when it came out, and at the time Cloudflare was (and arguably still is): a) the best provider available b) more importantly, the most private provider available But there's nothing about the technology locking Mozilla into keeping Cloudflare the default in perpetuity, and in any case, the solution to your concern is to adjust the defaults, not to throw out DoH entirely. There's nothing about DoH in specific that's causing the concerns you have. Mozilla could have set Cloudlfare DNS to be the default even for regular, unencrypted DNS traffic. There's nothing inherent in DNS technology that would force them to respect your OS settings. If your concerned about Cloudflare taking over, rejecting DoH isn't the solution to that problem. It's not an underhanded centralization push, it just so happens that when DoH was still new, there was effectively one provider that was widely available, that could confidently handle a large upsurge in traffic, and that made extremely strong privacy guarantees compared to the rest of the industry. At the time Mozilla started pushing DoH, most ISPs in the US didn't even offer it as an option at all. As that changes, I expect that browser defaults will change as well.
cpeterso 6y ago
Cloudflare is the default DoH provider for Firefox only in the US. NextDNS is another option in the the Firefox preferences UI and more options (such as Comcast) are coming soon in the US and internationally. You can also specify a custom DoH provider URL: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-https#w_switching-providers https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-https#...
babypuncher 6y ago
The kind of user who wouldn't change their default setting is probably already happily (or unknowingly) sending all their DNS traffic to their ISP. I get your concern about cloudflare, but I can tell you right now which of the two options I would trust more with this data, and it's not Comcast/AT&T/Cox/<insert shady ISP here>

danShumway 6y ago

Firefox made DoH default to Cloudflare, but that's because Firefox was the browser that pushed DoH the hardest when it came out, and at the time Cloudflare was (and arguably still is): a) the best provider available b) more importantly, the most private provider available But there's nothing about the technology locking Mozilla into keeping Cloudflare the default in perpetuity, and in any case, the solution to your concern is to adjust the defaults, not to throw out DoH entirely. There's nothing about DoH in specific that's causing the concerns you have. Mozilla could have set Cloudlfare DNS to be the default even for regular, unencrypted DNS traffic. There's nothing inherent in DNS technology that would force them to respect your OS settings. If your concerned about Cloudflare taking over, rejecting DoH isn't the solution to that problem. It's not an underhanded centralization push, it just so happens that when DoH was still new, there was effectively one provider that was widely available, that could confidently handle a large upsurge in traffic, and that made extremely strong privacy guarantees compared to the rest of the industry. At the time Mozilla started pushing DoH, most ISPs in the US didn't even offer it as an option at all. As that changes, I expect that browser defaults will change as well.

cpeterso 6y ago

Cloudflare is the default DoH provider for Firefox only in the US. NextDNS is another option in the the Firefox preferences UI and more options (such as Comcast) are coming soon in the US and internationally. You can also specify a custom DoH provider URL: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-https#w_switching-providers https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-dns-over-https#...

babypuncher 6y ago

The kind of user who wouldn't change their default setting is probably already happily (or unknowingly) sending all their DNS traffic to their ISP. I get your concern about cloudflare, but I can tell you right now which of the two options I would trust more with this data, and it's not Comcast/AT&T/Cox/<insert shady ISP here>