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I get why this idea of becoming iOS-like is uncomfortable for a lot of people, but will they take away the POSIX-ness of the OS? What about all the people that

I get why this idea of becoming iOS-like is uncomfortable for a lot of people, but will they take away the POSIX-ness of the OS? What about all the people that spend all their time in Vim, TMUX, Emacs, and/or zsh? I think these people will continue to be pretty happy on macOS if they already are. In my experience, installing alternate OS's on Mac hardware has never been frictionless or satisfying anyway.

aero-glide 6y ago
>In my experience, installing alternate OS's on Mac hardware has never been frictionless or satisfying anyway. It would be if they take some effort to support it.
- matvore 6y ago
  > It would be if they take some effort to support it. Oh, definitely. But the Linux (or alternate OS) fans are not really on Apple's radar. OTOH, they do a good job of keeping some core binaries up-to-date, like zsh and Vim, and they did appeal about getting good compile times during the M1 release event, so they consider POSIX users part of their target market.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    There's no link between - compile time and "POSIX users". Last I checked, I can compile and deploy an iOS app without the need for anything POSIX.
- GiorgioG 6y ago
  Bootcamp has always run fine for me. I've never tried to install Linux on my Macs.
nsxwolf 6y ago
I don't see why they would do this. If they just want to sell iPads, they could do that tomorrow. Just release XCode for Linux and Windows so that devs can create iOS apps and call it a day. Obviously they still intend for the Mac to remain a general purpose computer or they wouldn't be putting this much effort into it.
- FreakyT 6y ago
  Exactly. They still need something to develop iOS and MacOS themselves on, so unless they want to move all their internal lower-level development over to Windows or Linux (which, IMO, doesn't seem like something Apple would do), they'll need to continue producing something resembling a general purpose computer.
  - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
    Why do you think Xcode won’t ever make it to iOS?
- michaelt 6y ago
  When GiorgioG speaks of a closed, iOS-style ecosystem, I don't think they mean literally running iOS on laptops. Rather, they foresee OS X becoming a system where you can't run programs that haven't received Apple's blessing and been brought through Apple's store. Blessings that will be denied to software like youtube-dl. As to why they would do this? A combination of the good of most users, who will enjoy protection from malware and viruses; and the irresistible temptation of a 30% cut of all sales.
  - least 6y ago
    People have been fear mongering this for a long time now without anything to show for it. People see the writing on the wall but honestly I don't really buy it. They added System Integrity Protection (SIP) in El Capitan in the name of security which clamped down heavily on what people could do with their system, limiting hacks that allowed for modification of system applications, etc. Outwardly you can claim that this is a sign of them making it so people don't have control over their system. The reality is that it can be turned off by anyone that cares enough to do so. They added checks to inhibit installation of unverified executables from the web. If you don't have a signature from Apple, you can't run it. That surely means they're taking control, right? Well, except that it doesn't actually stop you from installing the software. They keep adding checks to inhibit users from endangering their system (such as much more granular permissions in Mojave/Catalina), but they have not made it impossible to execute any arbitrary code you want on their system if you want to.
karteum 6y ago
> will they take away the POSIX-ness of the OS? It's not only about POSIX. After the X years of planned lifetime (with proper software/OS updates), will there be any solution to extend the lifetime (which is what I used Linux for, on > 10 years-old laptops) ? I guess there will be no solution against planned obsolescence... And with regards to control and privacy : will Apple finally give-up their policy of deciding (and tracking) "for your own good" which apps you are allowed to install and launch ?

aero-glide 6y ago

>In my experience, installing alternate OS's on Mac hardware has never been frictionless or satisfying anyway. It would be if they take some effort to support it.

matvore 6y ago
> It would be if they take some effort to support it. Oh, definitely. But the Linux (or alternate OS) fans are not really on Apple's radar. OTOH, they do a good job of keeping some core binaries up-to-date, like zsh and Vim, and they did appeal about getting good compile times during the M1 release event, so they consider POSIX users part of their target market.
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  There's no link between - compile time and "POSIX users". Last I checked, I can compile and deploy an iOS app without the need for anything POSIX.
GiorgioG 6y ago
Bootcamp has always run fine for me. I've never tried to install Linux on my Macs.

nsxwolf 6y ago

I don't see why they would do this. If they just want to sell iPads, they could do that tomorrow. Just release XCode for Linux and Windows so that devs can create iOS apps and call it a day. Obviously they still intend for the Mac to remain a general purpose computer or they wouldn't be putting this much effort into it.

FreakyT 6y ago
Exactly. They still need something to develop iOS and MacOS themselves on, so unless they want to move all their internal lower-level development over to Windows or Linux (which, IMO, doesn't seem like something Apple would do), they'll need to continue producing something resembling a general purpose computer.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Why do you think Xcode won’t ever make it to iOS?
michaelt 6y ago
When GiorgioG speaks of a closed, iOS-style ecosystem, I don't think they mean literally running iOS on laptops. Rather, they foresee OS X becoming a system where you can't run programs that haven't received Apple's blessing and been brought through Apple's store. Blessings that will be denied to software like youtube-dl. As to why they would do this? A combination of the good of most users, who will enjoy protection from malware and viruses; and the irresistible temptation of a 30% cut of all sales.
- least 6y ago
  People have been fear mongering this for a long time now without anything to show for it. People see the writing on the wall but honestly I don't really buy it. They added System Integrity Protection (SIP) in El Capitan in the name of security which clamped down heavily on what people could do with their system, limiting hacks that allowed for modification of system applications, etc. Outwardly you can claim that this is a sign of them making it so people don't have control over their system. The reality is that it can be turned off by anyone that cares enough to do so. They added checks to inhibit installation of unverified executables from the web. If you don't have a signature from Apple, you can't run it. That surely means they're taking control, right? Well, except that it doesn't actually stop you from installing the software. They keep adding checks to inhibit users from endangering their system (such as much more granular permissions in Mojave/Catalina), but they have not made it impossible to execute any arbitrary code you want on their system if you want to.

karteum 6y ago

> will they take away the POSIX-ness of the OS? It's not only about POSIX. After the X years of planned lifetime (with proper software/OS updates), will there be any solution to extend the lifetime (which is what I used Linux for, on > 10 years-old laptops) ? I guess there will be no solution against planned obsolescence... And with regards to control and privacy : will Apple finally give-up their policy of deciding (and tracking) "for your own good" which apps you are allowed to install and launch ?