3 ms·

So between the user and the network operator, who should have the final say? It seems like you're saying, "it should be the user when I'm the user and it should

by shawnz 6y ago

So between the user and the network operator, who should have the final say? It seems like you're saying, "it should be the user when I'm the user and it should be the network operator when I'm the network operator". But I don't think we can have it both ways.

iso1631 6y ago
Generally the policy should be 1) The ISP says what should be used 2) the lan either accepts that, or the operator puts their own values 3) the device either accepts that, or the operator puts their own values Same as object inheritence. An ISP says "use this DNS server it's nearer", the network operator says "no thanks, I'll run my own with an upstream of google as I don't like your NXDOMAIN injects", the user says "actually I'll use cloudflare because I don't trust any of you" That's all fine, and gives the power to the user. Exceptionally if a device doesn't allow the network settings to be overwritten for some technical reason, it should simply accept what the lan sends it.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I think there will be some contention over 1 and 2 because we're at the point where both of these entities might be trusted (at home and work) but are inherently untrustworthy. And so browsers are saying that the path should be. 1) The browser developers say what should be used. 2) The user either accepts that or puts their own values. Ideally I think it should actually be something like 1) The OS vendor say what should be used. 2) The user either accepts that or puts their own values. 2.1) Lan operators can offer DNS servers which the user can (always) accept or (always) reject with reject being the default. But this whole mess with browser DoH is because OS vendors are slow to move on this. Google Android does it kinda, Windows has it in beta, Linux works but it's a little DIY.

3 ms·

So between the user and the network operator, who should have the final say? It seems like you're saying, "it should be the user when I'm the user and it should

by shawnz 6y ago

iso1631 6y ago
Generally the policy should be 1) The ISP says what should be used 2) the lan either accepts that, or the operator puts their own values 3) the device either accepts that, or the operator puts their own values Same as object inheritence. An ISP says "use this DNS server it's nearer", the network operator says "no thanks, I'll run my own with an upstream of google as I don't like your NXDOMAIN injects", the user says "actually I'll use cloudflare because I don't trust any of you" That's all fine, and gives the power to the user. Exceptionally if a device doesn't allow the network settings to be overwritten for some technical reason, it should simply accept what the lan sends it.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I think there will be some contention over 1 and 2 because we're at the point where both of these entities might be trusted (at home and work) but are inherently untrustworthy. And so browsers are saying that the path should be. 1) The browser developers say what should be used. 2) The user either accepts that or puts their own values. Ideally I think it should actually be something like 1) The OS vendor say what should be used. 2) The user either accepts that or puts their own values. 2.1) Lan operators can offer DNS servers which the user can (always) accept or (always) reject with reject being the default. But this whole mess with browser DoH is because OS vendors are slow to move on this. Google Android does it kinda, Windows has it in beta, Linux works but it's a little DIY.