5 ms·

I think This is a very naïve, unfair take on one of the world's most sophisticated, complex, real-time booking systems that is unparalleled in what it enables.

I think This is a very naïve, unfair take on one of the world's most sophisticated, complex, real-time booking systems that is unparalleled in what it enables. [1,2] The front end definitely can be much much better; but the issue is very simply there are not enough tickets to match the demand. "From 29 tickets booked in a day in 2002, it has reached to 13 Lakh tickets a day as of now. It is reported that the IRCTC system is currently capable of booking 15K tickets a minute online and can handle 3 Lakh concurrent users to handle any surge in demand." [1] (13 lakhs is 1.3 million) "Of the 15 million passengers who climb aboard one of 8,520 trains each day, about 550,000 have reserved accommodations. Their journeys can start in any part of India and end in any other part, with travel times as long as 48 hours and distances up to several thousand kilometres. The challenge is to provide a reservation system that can support such a huge number-regardless of whether it’s measured by kilometres, passenger numbers, routing complexity, or simply the sheer scale of country. " [2] If anyone has better references on the frankly astounding technical accomplishment that the CRIS Passenger Reservation system, please share. "Passenger Reservation System (PRS): A nationwide online passenger reservation and ticketing system, developed and maintained by CRIS, was developed in C and Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS operating system using RTR (Reliable Transaction Router) as middleware. Also known as CONCERT (Country-wide Network of Computerised Enhanced Reservation and Ticketing), it interconnects the four regional computing systems (in New Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai) into a national PRS grid. It allows a passenger anywhere to book train tickets from any station to any station. PRS handles reservations, changes, cancellations and refunds, reserving over 1.6 million seats and berths daily. Complex rules, validations and fare-computation techniques are interwoven in the application" [3] [1] https://inc42.com/features/how-online-train-booking-ticket-platforms-are-gearing-up-for-indian-railways-privatised-future/ https://inc42.com/features/how-online-train-booking-ticket-p... [2] http://www.egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/25869/1/Unit-11.pdf http://www.egyankosh.ac.in/bitstream/123456789/25869/1/Unit-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Railway_Information_Systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_for_Railway_Information...

vmception 6y ago
but when your frontend also looks and acts like its from 2002, how parallelized your backend is doesn't matter its like when you see a php extension on a website, there isn't an inherent limitation with php and it is made to be quite performant, you just know the people involved have a high correlation of making UI/UX an afterthought and stuck in a different decade and this is highly correlated with other afterthoughts on performance
Karishma1234 6y ago
Ignorable rant: Indian government is good at propaganda like all other third world socialist regimes. Railways booking is fairly complex but no where as complex as it is made to sound. Most of the complexity is due to the bad design of the system and rent seeking attitude of various government departments involved. Prof. Bibek Debroy was appointed to study Railways and has produced excellent analysis of the malice in Railways. The real problem with Railways bookings has nothing to do with total tickets sale. The problem is when thousands of people are trying to book a specific ticket. A sleeper class with 10 coaches will have 720 seats and around 2000-5000 people will try to book them at the same time. Each train booking is independent and hence can be parallelized. Where IRCTC can book 1.3 million tickets or not is irrelevant, what is more important is whether they can efficiently solve this simple problem of 720 seats. The alphabet soup of PRS, RTR etc. is a waste. A kid wrote an app that vastly improved user experience of the system tells you just how bad the entire user experience is. Mismanagement of IRCTC can be attributed to the Railways mafia who benefits from such inefficiencies. Technical note: The 720 seats for 5000 people might sound simple but in reality is a little bit more complex as passengers also put preference for preferred berth, there is a special affirmative action for disabled, seniors etc., family members want to travel together, there are some seats reserved for politicians, and some for "agents". Some will be booked via railway terminals only. Those who do not win this 720 lottery will get into a waiting list and can still travel but will have to stand.
namdnay 6y ago
> frankly astounding technical accomplishment that the CRIS Passenger Reservation system Believe me, I know well the complexities involved in developing computerised reservation systems, but I'm not sure what is astounding about this - it's what every CRS does. 550k bookings a day is nothing extraordinary
baybal2 6y ago
> Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS.... in 2020
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  Just WOW! and I say that as some one who developed billing systems in Fortran.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
pzh 6y ago
15k reservations per min is 250 tps. If that’s the maximum it can handle, I wouldn’t call it very scalable.
Niten 6y ago
> If anyone has better references on the frankly astounding technical accomplishment that the CRIS Passenger Reservation system, please share. Huh? You've described a run-of-the-mill, moderate-scale reservation system. This is not "astounding" in any sense except, perhaps, the hyperbole.
avh02 6y ago
I dunno, given a server upgrade (of itanium servers, in 2018!) shaved 15 minutes off the maintenance window [1] Don't get me wrong, I don't think the whole railway system is a small feat - i wouldn't want to be working on that project, but it's definitely not to "next generation" standards in 2014 (and definitely wasn't when i visited in 2018) [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/irctc-wont-let-you-book-train-ticket-at-this-hour/system-upgrade/slideshow/66568562.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation...

vmception 6y ago

but when your frontend also looks and acts like its from 2002, how parallelized your backend is doesn't matter its like when you see a php extension on a website, there isn't an inherent limitation with php and it is made to be quite performant, you just know the people involved have a high correlation of making UI/UX an afterthought and stuck in a different decade and this is highly correlated with other afterthoughts on performance

Karishma1234 6y ago

Ignorable rant: Indian government is good at propaganda like all other third world socialist regimes. Railways booking is fairly complex but no where as complex as it is made to sound. Most of the complexity is due to the bad design of the system and rent seeking attitude of various government departments involved. Prof. Bibek Debroy was appointed to study Railways and has produced excellent analysis of the malice in Railways. The real problem with Railways bookings has nothing to do with total tickets sale. The problem is when thousands of people are trying to book a specific ticket. A sleeper class with 10 coaches will have 720 seats and around 2000-5000 people will try to book them at the same time. Each train booking is independent and hence can be parallelized. Where IRCTC can book 1.3 million tickets or not is irrelevant, what is more important is whether they can efficiently solve this simple problem of 720 seats. The alphabet soup of PRS, RTR etc. is a waste. A kid wrote an app that vastly improved user experience of the system tells you just how bad the entire user experience is. Mismanagement of IRCTC can be attributed to the Railways mafia who benefits from such inefficiencies. Technical note: The 720 seats for 5000 people might sound simple but in reality is a little bit more complex as passengers also put preference for preferred berth, there is a special affirmative action for disabled, seniors etc., family members want to travel together, there are some seats reserved for politicians, and some for "agents". Some will be booked via railway terminals only. Those who do not win this 720 lottery will get into a waiting list and can still travel but will have to stand.

namdnay 6y ago

> frankly astounding technical accomplishment that the CRIS Passenger Reservation system Believe me, I know well the complexities involved in developing computerised reservation systems, but I'm not sure what is astounding about this - it's what every CRS does. 550k bookings a day is nothing extraordinary

baybal2 6y ago

> Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS Fortran on a Digital OpenVMS.... in 2020

C1sc0cat 6y ago
Just WOW! and I say that as some one who developed billing systems in Fortran.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

pzh 6y ago

15k reservations per min is 250 tps. If that’s the maximum it can handle, I wouldn’t call it very scalable.

Niten 6y ago

> If anyone has better references on the frankly astounding technical accomplishment that the CRIS Passenger Reservation system, please share. Huh? You've described a run-of-the-mill, moderate-scale reservation system. This is not "astounding" in any sense except, perhaps, the hyperbole.

avh02 6y ago

I dunno, given a server upgrade (of itanium servers, in 2018!) shaved 15 minutes off the maintenance window [1] Don't get me wrong, I don't think the whole railway system is a small feat - i wouldn't want to be working on that project, but it's definitely not to "next generation" standards in 2014 (and definitely wasn't when i visited in 2018) [1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/railways/irctc-wont-let-you-book-train-ticket-at-this-hour/system-upgrade/slideshow/66568562.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation...