5 ms·

There was principal who was dismissive of a racist incident: that’s a problem and not the books. > "Helligar, who is one of the parents who filed a complaint i

There was principal who was dismissive of a racist incident: that’s a problem and not the books. > "Helligar, who is one of the parents who filed a complaint in the case, claimed the boy's excuse was that he had read it in class and the principal had been dismissive of the incident." This other quote is interesting, but it is not a reason to ban any books: if anything it means more books that take into account this additional perspective should be on the curriculum. > Nadra Ostrom, another Black parent who filed a complaint, argued that the portrayal of Black people is mostly from a white perspective. > "There's no counter-narrative to this Black person dealing with racism and a white person saving them," she said. > Ostrom added that the current education given to students assumes "that racism is something in the past." Edit: fixed quote

spacemanmatt 6y ago
Even as fundamentally against banning of books as I am, I am pretty sympathetic to most of those complaints. We could do a lot better by teaching modern Black perspective and literature rather than antiquated white literature, albeit good literature, IMO.
- lixtra 6y ago
  If it was about doing better the approach would be constructive: We should include B into the curriculum and to make place I propose A to go.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Instead of forcing people to read certain books to check off certain criteria, we should be teaching people how to read and choose their own books, encouraging them to broaden their horizons. There will never be a perfect curriculum. And also, the "black perspective" is not a monolith - this is another example of white people trying to put it in a box that's easy for them.
  - watwut 6y ago
    But the person you are responding to is not saying that there is single black perspective. How to kill ... is totally absolutely white perspective. It is white antiracist perspective and also kind of propaganda for anti violent racism. It is not the only white perspective, white are various. But, it lacks any perspective but white. It has no black person with agency or personality. No actual personality. Victim is super clear victim, not even ability to do crime is there. Victim is not threatening or uncomfortable to whites, he could not possibly be less clear model victim. The book actually made political impact. In historical context, it is and was actual thing. But not necessary same impact for 2020 black student. And even this discussion lacks discussion about actual back then politics. Because that actually feels bad. Because people don't actually want to teach 13 years old about postcards with lynching victims being popular.
    - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      That's my point - there are multiple perspectives on everything that it will be impossible to come up with a curriculum that makes everyone happy. Teaching people to read means they can read what they choose to read. That should be the point.
      - spacemanmatt 6y ago
        We send people to school to learn from people who can make their educational effort more profitable, because they have experience that students do not. That extends to choice of reading material. I am not going to get on board advocating some free-for-all Libertarian educational system.
        ntsplnkv2 6y ago
        > free-for-all Libertarian educational system. See: strawman. Free-for-all arguing, I see. You have not established causality between educational success and reading certain required books to make such a claim. Learning to read is the key indicator - the choice of books is simply not relevant for most adolescent education. Only in the last 2 years of high school, maybe. Meanwhile students who can read can pick and choose any book they'd like, not reliant on an educational system that by its very nature needs to make sacrifices. I must ask - what books would be on your list?

spacemanmatt 6y ago

Even as fundamentally against banning of books as I am, I am pretty sympathetic to most of those complaints. We could do a lot better by teaching modern Black perspective and literature rather than antiquated white literature, albeit good literature, IMO.

lixtra 6y ago
If it was about doing better the approach would be constructive: We should include B into the curriculum and to make place I propose A to go.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
Instead of forcing people to read certain books to check off certain criteria, we should be teaching people how to read and choose their own books, encouraging them to broaden their horizons. There will never be a perfect curriculum. And also, the "black perspective" is not a monolith - this is another example of white people trying to put it in a box that's easy for them.
- watwut 6y ago
  But the person you are responding to is not saying that there is single black perspective. How to kill ... is totally absolutely white perspective. It is white antiracist perspective and also kind of propaganda for anti violent racism. It is not the only white perspective, white are various. But, it lacks any perspective but white. It has no black person with agency or personality. No actual personality. Victim is super clear victim, not even ability to do crime is there. Victim is not threatening or uncomfortable to whites, he could not possibly be less clear model victim. The book actually made political impact. In historical context, it is and was actual thing. But not necessary same impact for 2020 black student. And even this discussion lacks discussion about actual back then politics. Because that actually feels bad. Because people don't actually want to teach 13 years old about postcards with lynching victims being popular.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    That's my point - there are multiple perspectives on everything that it will be impossible to come up with a curriculum that makes everyone happy. Teaching people to read means they can read what they choose to read. That should be the point.
    - spacemanmatt 6y ago
      We send people to school to learn from people who can make their educational effort more profitable, because they have experience that students do not. That extends to choice of reading material. I am not going to get on board advocating some free-for-all Libertarian educational system.
      - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
        > free-for-all Libertarian educational system. See: strawman. Free-for-all arguing, I see. You have not established causality between educational success and reading certain required books to make such a claim. Learning to read is the key indicator - the choice of books is simply not relevant for most adolescent education. Only in the last 2 years of high school, maybe. Meanwhile students who can read can pick and choose any book they'd like, not reliant on an educational system that by its very nature needs to make sacrifices. I must ask - what books would be on your list?