5 ms·

As an European, it seems weird that in the US you don't need to register your address at all, leading to this last-cenutry 10-year Census process.

• mcntsh 6y ago
  As an American who now lives in Germany, it does make me think how the U.S works at all without this "registration". There are times where you fill out government forms with your address, but there's no way to know for sure where someone is living at any given moment. As far as the "government" is concerned (which government? state, local, federal? AFAIK it's all pretty decentralised) I'm still living at the place I registered to vote from years ago. I suppose it's cultural differences. There's a staunchly individualistic attitude in the US and the idea of a central government tracking its citizens is very unpopular. I get it, too. If you take a look at the "Anmeldung" process in Germany, where the government has a list of everyone and their race/religion/nationality, along with exactly where they live/which building/which floor/which side of the building, you can see how such a system could be dangerous if Germany were to ever shift from the liberal democracy it is today.
  • garmaine 6y ago
    Heck, I remember it getting drilled into me in middle school that the Nazis were able to kill so many Jewish people because they had complete records of where everyone lived and their religious affiliation. When the time came, they knew what doors to knock on. It boggles my mind that this system still exists in modern Germany, of all places. The American model is highly distributed and need-to-know. Many government forms ask for your current address, but it is not automatically shared with the police and there is no requirement to update it in a timely manner. Many Americans are highly skeptical of the police, and for good reason. Expecting people to go to the police to register when moving would be a complete non-starter in most neighborhoods that I have lived.
    • chrisseaton 6y ago
      America is even more extreme - there the state asks you for your political affiliation in many cases. That’s absolutely crazy to me.
      • mcntsh 6y ago
        Hmm I've never been asked this on any official form other than when I register to vote (so I can join a party), and that's optional.
        • chrisseaton 6y ago
          Right... but why does the state want to know which party you're a member of? This doesn't get supervised by the state in other countries. It's usually a personal, private matter between you and the party.
          • mcntsh 6y ago
            Ah, right, sure that's a good point but I wouldn't say it's more "extreme" than other countries, seeing as it's a totally optional thing. I can vote in elections without being affiliated with a party. In Germany, for example you don't have the choice but to have your race/gender/religion/address on file with the central government. Disclaimer: I'm not complaining about how it is in Germany/other countries in Europe. The trust in government is quite high here, and for a good reason :)
          • garmaine 6y ago
            It's for two reasons: First we have a system of primary elections, and in many jurisdictions your party registration status determines which primary you can vote in. You have to be registered Democrat to vote Democrat, registered Republican to vote Republican, etc. The local election board is the one who oversees to vote, so they need to know your party registration in order to make sure you get the right ballot and the right ballot information (which is sent by mail beforehand). In many jurisdictions you can also "decline to state" and then in a primary election you have to tell them each time which ballot you want. Second, it's used in state redistricting. Having this information be public allows auditors to check if redistricting is resulting in gerrymandering.
    • littlecranky67 6y ago
      Race and religion are definitely not required (=optional for you to give) when you register for permanent residency in Germany. Source: I am a german who completed the form multiple times after moving.
      • mcntsh 6y ago
        AFAIK there's a direct connection between the church you are apart of and the government via Kirchensteuer. As it relates to ethnicity, you're right. I can no longer edit my original comment though.
        • garmaine 6y ago
          I think you can say “no religion” though and then not pay your tithing taxes, no? There’s no requirement that if you are Jewish you register as such (but then, your synagogue misses out on money).
          • shafyy 6y ago
            Yes exactly, you can easily opt out from the church tax (of course, ideal it should have been opt in).
          • mcntsh 6y ago
            Hmm I've read stories of people getting in trouble for being members of a church and not paying their church tax.
  • shafyy 6y ago
    Yes I guess it's the cultural differences. But in reality, if the US government wants to find out where you live, they're going to find out :-) Also, as another child comment said, filling out religion and gender is optional, and no form ever asks for race (at least in Germany and Switzerland I know that for sure). On the other hand, having better data about citizens makes a lot of things more efficient and fair in government and politics. As I said, I think the US Census is a disaster and always leads to unfair outcomes for minorities and lower class people. But I agree, it would be better if they woulnd't ask for religion at all.
    • yisonPylkita 6y ago
      They’re asking for your religion because it makes a difference in your taxes and days free of work
      • shafyy 6y ago
        Days of free work you need to take up with your employer. They're asking for the church tax.
• garmaine 6y ago
  > leading to this last-cenutry 10-year Census process What are you referring to? We have a every-ten-year census mandate built into our constitution. It’s been an ongoing thing since the 18th century. The census results are mostly kept private and anonymized, with only aggregate data being shared.
  • morelisp 6y ago
    In other countries the role of the census is significantly lessened in modern times because basic population questions can be answered with "instantaneous" (in terms of when it was measured, if not when you get the results) data. The idea of waiting increments of 10 years to get basic counts of where people are living / moving to / from seems ridiculous. Deeper demographic information is usually handled via sampling, and does not require the nationwide (and especially this time, logistically taxing) mobilization of census-takers. I do agree it would be difficult for the US to shift to such a system given the requirement is constitutional rather than merely a procedure of the civil service.
• kube-system 6y ago
  The US census is also intended to count people without an address. Also, in the US it is state governments that are the authority for most things pertaining to where people live: property and rental law, identification cards, property taxes, voters registration, etc. Most states do require people to change their voters registration and drivers license when they move between states. It’s not that strange that you don’t register your address with the federal government, when in fact, the only interaction that many Americans have with the federal government at all is their yearly tax filing.
  • shafyy 6y ago
    In reality, there are a lot of problems with the Census that in the end unproportionally effect minorities and lower income folks negatively. It's the same in Germany and Switzerland (and I think in a lot of other European countries): You register with your local government when you move, not the federal government.