3 ms·

" hardly any human beings at all (as a percentage of the population, certainly) now take part in this activity." Of course - my point is that these are very co

by jariel 6y ago

" hardly any human beings at all (as a percentage of the population, certainly) now take part in this activity." Of course - my point is that these are very common, old, normative activities, the type of which most people are around quite a lot. It could have been carpentry. People 'work for the summer' on 'these types of jobs' all the time, there's generally not a lot to write about.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
And my point is that these are not very common activities in industrialized societies. I don't what you mean by "around quite a lot" ... I suspect that very few people have been within 100' of any carpentry for their entire lives. Working for the summer in jobs like this is mostly the preserve of college students, and only a small fraction of them at that - most will do very different kinds of summer jobs, if they do them at all (there's lots of evidence that those kinds of summer jobs are now taken by adults already in the workforce). Maybe you live in a more rural area that has lots of this sort of work available and lots of people doing it. As far as I know, that is unusual, and not "normative" for most of the population. There's normally a lot to write about no matter how "normative" or even mundane one's life is. It's not about the activities per se, but about how you reflect on them and connect them with other aspects of living. A classic example would be a book like "House" by Tracey Kidder, which documents in huge detail and considerable philosophical diversions a process that I suspect you would claim happens so frequently and repetitively that it's not worth writing about. Millions of people disagreed with you.
- jariel 6y ago
  " these are not very common activities in industrialized societies" Of course they are. They're just regular jobs. If you live near the ocean, there are people who fish, if you live inland, there are people who farm - and the myriad of various related activities. And a million mundane things in between. And no, they're definitely not the 'providence of college kids'. Having grown up around 'house builders', no, I don't really think there's that much philosophical insight in that activity either, but for those who don't have any of those skill and want to try it out, I'm sure it would be an interesting exercise.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    Most people do not live near enough to an ocean to be aware in any real sense of the day to day activities associated with fishing. And even if they do somehow see signs of fishing activity, they almost certainly have very little idea of what day to day life as a fisherman is like. Again, I repeat that agriculture in our society employs about 1% of the population. Even those who live in rural America (as I do these days) don't pick up farming by osmosis. Most people who live even in rural America do not farm, or work on a farm. They are just not that familiar with this kind of work (which is partly the cause and partly the result of the reality that most farm workers in the US now are migrant labor from latin american countries). I don't know who else does "summer jobs" anymore if it's not college kids. Maybe ski/surf bums filling in the off months? We can probably count the number of them, and its likely less than a mid-size American city in total. Sounds like you might want to read "House". Tracey Kidder pulled the same magic in "Soul of a New Machine", the now-classic book about the engineering of an (old) new computer. "House" is an amazingly deep meditation of the design and construction of modern American family home. Or maybe just read "Fine Homebuilding" for a while - not so heavy on the philosophy but hints of it here and there. I just can't really get it into my head what country you're talking about. I travel all over the USA (just did 4500 miles) and this land in which fishing, farming and carpentry are the jobs that most people do is invisible to me.

by jariel 6y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

And my point is that these are not very common activities in industrialized societies. I don't what you mean by "around quite a lot" ... I suspect that very few people have been within 100' of any carpentry for their entire lives. Working for the summer in jobs like this is mostly the preserve of college students, and only a small fraction of them at that - most will do very different kinds of summer jobs, if they do them at all (there's lots of evidence that those kinds of summer jobs are now taken by adults already in the workforce). Maybe you live in a more rural area that has lots of this sort of work available and lots of people doing it. As far as I know, that is unusual, and not "normative" for most of the population. There's normally a lot to write about no matter how "normative" or even mundane one's life is. It's not about the activities per se, but about how you reflect on them and connect them with other aspects of living. A classic example would be a book like "House" by Tracey Kidder, which documents in huge detail and considerable philosophical diversions a process that I suspect you would claim happens so frequently and repetitively that it's not worth writing about. Millions of people disagreed with you.

jariel 6y ago
" these are not very common activities in industrialized societies" Of course they are. They're just regular jobs. If you live near the ocean, there are people who fish, if you live inland, there are people who farm - and the myriad of various related activities. And a million mundane things in between. And no, they're definitely not the 'providence of college kids'. Having grown up around 'house builders', no, I don't really think there's that much philosophical insight in that activity either, but for those who don't have any of those skill and want to try it out, I'm sure it would be an interesting exercise.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  Most people do not live near enough to an ocean to be aware in any real sense of the day to day activities associated with fishing. And even if they do somehow see signs of fishing activity, they almost certainly have very little idea of what day to day life as a fisherman is like. Again, I repeat that agriculture in our society employs about 1% of the population. Even those who live in rural America (as I do these days) don't pick up farming by osmosis. Most people who live even in rural America do not farm, or work on a farm. They are just not that familiar with this kind of work (which is partly the cause and partly the result of the reality that most farm workers in the US now are migrant labor from latin american countries). I don't know who else does "summer jobs" anymore if it's not college kids. Maybe ski/surf bums filling in the off months? We can probably count the number of them, and its likely less than a mid-size American city in total. Sounds like you might want to read "House". Tracey Kidder pulled the same magic in "Soul of a New Machine", the now-classic book about the engineering of an (old) new computer. "House" is an amazingly deep meditation of the design and construction of modern American family home. Or maybe just read "Fine Homebuilding" for a while - not so heavy on the philosophy but hints of it here and there. I just can't really get it into my head what country you're talking about. I travel all over the USA (just did 4500 miles) and this land in which fishing, farming and carpentry are the jobs that most people do is invisible to me.