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The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources. When you combine that with the privileged status that comes

by ahoy 6y ago

The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources. When you combine that with the privileged status that comes with law enforcement you get a real mess. The problem is, as in so many cases, fundamentally about power. Until police have less power (that is, less funding, fewer numbers, and a smaller scope of responsibilites), i fear these kinds of abuses are almost unavoidable.

secondcoming 6y ago
That power doesn't just disappear though. It'll be taken by a mob / gang / warlord, take your pick. Good luck demanding bodycams then!
- ahoy 6y ago
  I never suggested dismantling all systems of social cohesion and accountability. I said too much of the power that maintains social order is vested in a single place.
varispeed 6y ago
Even if police has less power, they still can lie to you or give you misleading advice and then turn it against you and you will have no way to prove malice. I witnessed this couple of times and I was shocked that something like this is possible. I think to build the trust of the public, governments should invest in creating technology allowing recording all incidents in full. If there is no accountability all bad apples get free reign and you will have no recourse.
SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
> The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources. Part if this is because many other social services are cannibalized either due to drops in tax revenue, or in order to fund the constantly bloating police budgets. Part of the "defund" process (I know, very poorly named!) is to take both responsibility off police shoulders and $$$ out of police budgets and put those dollars into social response. A great example are mental wellness response to psychotic breaks among homeless. Rather than having police have to deal with hours of interaction (and police report paperwork), send in qualified health workers, i.e., those that have been trained for years to deal with this rather than a rookie cop with 6 months at the academy. This would prevent cops from having to handle all kinds of other stuff, especially situations where they are not at all qualified to handle.
- hvdfhbj 6y ago
  Better still, get mentally ill homeless people off the street and into institutions where they belong. Building a camp out in the desert somewhere where people like this can get three square meals and a bed would both be an improvement on their present situation and a total money saver once you take into account all the problems and waste of police/ambulance time that they cause. Even better if you extend it to drug addicts.
hvdfhbj 6y ago
Why is it that the same people who think that the solution to bad public schools is more funding also think that the solution to bad police departments is less funding? If the police are substandard it means we need to pay them more to get better quality applicants into the system. We also need a better funded prison/drug rehab system so that police don't have to waste their time dealing with the sort of habitual offenders who should have been permanently removed from society a long time ago.
- triceratops 6y ago
  Why is it that the same people who think the solution to bad public schools is more oversight and accountability, seem to oppose increased oversight and accountability for bad police departments? There's no indication that funding is an actual problem that a lot of these "bad" departments face. Teachers regularly have to buy their own supplies for their classrooms. Have you ever heard of a cop needing pay out of their own pocket for ammo for their service weapon, gas for their patrol car, or batteries for their radios?
- tenebrisalietum 6y ago
  My theory: I'm betting in these communities where people tend to say this, schools are falling into disrepair, classes are overcrowded, and a substantial number of students rely on school free lunch and breakfast for their nutrition. So it's natural such communities would want less money to go to police, which they probably see as victimizing a community, putting people in jail for low-level drug crimes and messing with people's jobs and livelihood through bail/fines, and more money to go to schools, which they see as helping a community and providing beneficial services.
  - hvdfhbj 6y ago
    It would seem such communities would be the ones with most to gain from a better funded police force and justice system, one that could permanently remove the criminals from their midst.
    - 6y ago

by ahoy 6y ago

secondcoming 6y ago

That power doesn't just disappear though. It'll be taken by a mob / gang / warlord, take your pick. Good luck demanding bodycams then!

ahoy 6y ago
I never suggested dismantling all systems of social cohesion and accountability. I said too much of the power that maintains social order is vested in a single place.

varispeed 6y ago

Even if police has less power, they still can lie to you or give you misleading advice and then turn it against you and you will have no way to prove malice. I witnessed this couple of times and I was shocked that something like this is possible. I think to build the trust of the public, governments should invest in creating technology allowing recording all incidents in full. If there is no accountability all bad apples get free reign and you will have no recourse.

SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago

> The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources. Part if this is because many other social services are cannibalized either due to drops in tax revenue, or in order to fund the constantly bloating police budgets. Part of the "defund" process (I know, very poorly named!) is to take both responsibility off police shoulders and $$$ out of police budgets and put those dollars into social response. A great example are mental wellness response to psychotic breaks among homeless. Rather than having police have to deal with hours of interaction (and police report paperwork), send in qualified health workers, i.e., those that have been trained for years to deal with this rather than a rookie cop with 6 months at the academy. This would prevent cops from having to handle all kinds of other stuff, especially situations where they are not at all qualified to handle.

hvdfhbj 6y ago
Better still, get mentally ill homeless people off the street and into institutions where they belong. Building a camp out in the desert somewhere where people like this can get three square meals and a bed would both be an improvement on their present situation and a total money saver once you take into account all the problems and waste of police/ambulance time that they cause. Even better if you extend it to drug addicts.

hvdfhbj 6y ago

Why is it that the same people who think that the solution to bad public schools is more funding also think that the solution to bad police departments is less funding? If the police are substandard it means we need to pay them more to get better quality applicants into the system. We also need a better funded prison/drug rehab system so that police don't have to waste their time dealing with the sort of habitual offenders who should have been permanently removed from society a long time ago.

triceratops 6y ago
Why is it that the same people who think the solution to bad public schools is more oversight and accountability, seem to oppose increased oversight and accountability for bad police departments? There's no indication that funding is an actual problem that a lot of these "bad" departments face. Teachers regularly have to buy their own supplies for their classrooms. Have you ever heard of a cop needing pay out of their own pocket for ammo for their service weapon, gas for their patrol car, or batteries for their radios?
tenebrisalietum 6y ago
My theory: I'm betting in these communities where people tend to say this, schools are falling into disrepair, classes are overcrowded, and a substantial number of students rely on school free lunch and breakfast for their nutrition. So it's natural such communities would want less money to go to police, which they probably see as victimizing a community, putting people in jail for low-level drug crimes and messing with people's jobs and livelihood through bail/fines, and more money to go to schools, which they see as helping a community and providing beneficial services.
- hvdfhbj 6y ago
  It would seem such communities would be the ones with most to gain from a better funded police force and justice system, one that could permanently remove the criminals from their midst.
  - 6y ago