5 ms·

So you're saying that authoritarian measures are the way? Codes of conduct change minds if people are receptive, or they play along so that they don't get abuse

by ericd 6y ago

So you're saying that authoritarian measures are the way? Codes of conduct change minds if people are receptive, or they play along so that they don't get abused, and it looks like it's changed their mind. From where I'm sitting, perceived authoritarian tendencies on the democratic side is a large part of what really motivates Trump voters. That's certainly a lot of the narrative, if you ever visit that side of the media landscape.

noncoml 6y ago
Nobody talked about censorship and authoritarian measures. It’s about: 1. Don’t even entertain their distorted reality 2. Put a stop on the spread of misinformation Stopping your anti-vaccine post from going viral on social media is in no way any different than a scientific magazine refusing to publish the same.
- usaphp 6y ago
  > nobody talked about censorship > put a stop on spread of misinformation That’s what censorship is. A small group of people will decide what is considered misinformation and will censor everything that goes against that
  - hunter2_ 6y ago
    So is fighting misinformation a lost cause, or can we come up with some plan that doesn't involve a small group of people censoring it? Would some kind of distributed rating system like upvotes/downvotes be acceptable, or is the better course of action to be okay with letting all information -- even if specifically designed to trick people, not only the most gullible, but even the most discerning skeptics -- circulate? I believe the government should not have a say in whether or not all information circulates, but ordinary people who build information sharing systems (and I don't just mean electronic ones) have an opportunity to figure this out. Should they not?
  - noncoml 6y ago
    > That’s what censorship is. A small group of people will decide what is considered misinformation and will censor everything that goes against that This is not censorship. Censorship is stopping you from expressing your thoughts. Not publishing your thoughts is not. You can say whatever you want but no newspaper is in any obligation to publish it. Similar with social media, you can write whatever you want on your personal "page", but they are under no obligation to make sure it reaches other people's feed.
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      "but they are under no obligation to make sure it reaches other people's feed.." Nice euphemism for censorship. Social media is common people writing and reading. And they choose which people to follow etc. "stopping a post to go viral" means in this context activily manipulating and interfering what information does and does not reach other people. That is something very different than a newspaper refusing to publish a certain article.
  - wussboy 6y ago
    Is censorship really the greatest crime? Is there no intelligent way to facilitate the search for truth that doesn’t require us to get bogged down in accepting every possibility as equally plausible? Of course there is. One thing is certain. Crying “that’s censorship!” will not get us to that place.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      There is a time in not that long ago recorded history where this would have risked settling on the conclusion that the Earth was the center of the universe (and it was flat), leeches and blood-letting were a treatment for diseases, and heavier than air flying machines were impossible. If you’ll permit a scientifically inaccurate analogy here: sunlight is the best disinfectant.
hunter2_ 6y ago
I don't think authoritarian measures are an appropriate way for a government to operate, but in the context of whether something is "against HN rules" I think making it known that an idea is harmful is a good thing. It all comes down to whether or not the community in question is one in which members can readily leave without cost. I don't agree with making anti-vaxxers change their ways by government force, but I'm into being intolerant of them in other ways to the point that they'll come around and obviate any need for governmental force in the first place.

by ericd 6y ago

noncoml 6y ago

Nobody talked about censorship and authoritarian measures. It’s about: 1. Don’t even entertain their distorted reality 2. Put a stop on the spread of misinformation Stopping your anti-vaccine post from going viral on social media is in no way any different than a scientific magazine refusing to publish the same.

usaphp 6y ago
> nobody talked about censorship > put a stop on spread of misinformation That’s what censorship is. A small group of people will decide what is considered misinformation and will censor everything that goes against that
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  So is fighting misinformation a lost cause, or can we come up with some plan that doesn't involve a small group of people censoring it? Would some kind of distributed rating system like upvotes/downvotes be acceptable, or is the better course of action to be okay with letting all information -- even if specifically designed to trick people, not only the most gullible, but even the most discerning skeptics -- circulate? I believe the government should not have a say in whether or not all information circulates, but ordinary people who build information sharing systems (and I don't just mean electronic ones) have an opportunity to figure this out. Should they not?
- noncoml 6y ago
  > That’s what censorship is. A small group of people will decide what is considered misinformation and will censor everything that goes against that This is not censorship. Censorship is stopping you from expressing your thoughts. Not publishing your thoughts is not. You can say whatever you want but no newspaper is in any obligation to publish it. Similar with social media, you can write whatever you want on your personal "page", but they are under no obligation to make sure it reaches other people's feed.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    "but they are under no obligation to make sure it reaches other people's feed.." Nice euphemism for censorship. Social media is common people writing and reading. And they choose which people to follow etc. "stopping a post to go viral" means in this context activily manipulating and interfering what information does and does not reach other people. That is something very different than a newspaper refusing to publish a certain article.
- wussboy 6y ago
  Is censorship really the greatest crime? Is there no intelligent way to facilitate the search for truth that doesn’t require us to get bogged down in accepting every possibility as equally plausible? Of course there is. One thing is certain. Crying “that’s censorship!” will not get us to that place.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    There is a time in not that long ago recorded history where this would have risked settling on the conclusion that the Earth was the center of the universe (and it was flat), leeches and blood-letting were a treatment for diseases, and heavier than air flying machines were impossible. If you’ll permit a scientifically inaccurate analogy here: sunlight is the best disinfectant.

hunter2_ 6y ago

I don't think authoritarian measures are an appropriate way for a government to operate, but in the context of whether something is "against HN rules" I think making it known that an idea is harmful is a good thing. It all comes down to whether or not the community in question is one in which members can readily leave without cost. I don't agree with making anti-vaxxers change their ways by government force, but I'm into being intolerant of them in other ways to the point that they'll come around and obviate any need for governmental force in the first place.