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> I've definitely gone from "I'll buy a mac because it's a mac" to "Maybe my next machine will be Windows. It's cheaper, more reliable, and just works" I got b

> I've definitely gone from "I'll buy a mac because it's a mac" to "Maybe my next machine will be Windows. It's cheaper, more reliable, and just works" I got bad news for ya: I just bought a new Yoga a month ago and it is just as bad if not worse. * Animated ads in the start menu tiles * I've had to upgraded and restart almost every other day for 4 weeks * there are ads that keep reapparing in the tiles on update * there are constant popus reminding me to log in to my windows account (or problems that I can't log in because I HAVEN'T) * nVidia ads popping up in the lower-right corner * MSoft ads popping up in the lower-right corner. * Also, day one: tried installing some LabView software and BSOD (well, the new pretty color blue they use and the high-res warning). * Starting a new app takes about 15~30 seconds (I believe it is phoning home the way macOS does, not sure). Win10 now looks and feels like an annoying clickbait website. Once macOS includes ads, it'll be an equally appalling UX. The only respite I get are logging into AWS compute instances or my Ubuntu and FreeBSD boxes. They can't take away my BASH CLI. EDIT: I'm getting a lot of "it never happened to me." Yes, I'm sure some of you haven't seen this. I'm jealous. Meanwhile on my new MacBook PRO 2019: * Fans randomly turn on with nothing running and `powermetrics` has the fan at 3200 RPM and cpu temp of ... 40C? I literally have to reboot to get them to turn off. I walked into my office one morning and apparently the fans had been running all night with no apps loaded and nothing using considerable power. * Only some USB-C ports work with my belkin Gigabit adapter. I had to experiment with where-to-plug-what to get it to work. Apparently all USB-C ports on it are NOT the same. Grrr. * Gigabit adapter never goes to sleep, stays warm when plugged in * The apple display adpater port + USB-A + power jack periodically drops the screen, and sometimes when I log in I have to open my laptop (I stay docked), wait for the video to mirror, then close my laptop and wait for it to switch to the external monitor. * Too many Catalina updates this year! But they are faster than my Win10 box.

puranjay 6y ago
You're getting downvoted but these are very legitimate issues. I still chose Windows but I was really, really tempted to ditch it all when they pulled off that forced Edge installation stunt a couple of months ago.
deleted 6y ago
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SkyPuncher 6y ago
Oh, that's really interesting. I have a W10 that I run as a second machine. Updates are annoying (but they don't cross the line of being "terrible" for me). The ads are something that I haven't noticed. I wonder if that's manufacturer specific. I know I'm running a clean, vanilla install on my setup.
- brundolf 6y ago
  Yes, similar to Android, many manufacturers customize their Windows installs, and that increasingly means random ads in your system UI. Switching from Mac to Windows - especially manufacturer installs of Windows - over privacy or stability issues is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
cutemonster 6y ago
Yes Linux is nice. I installed Linux Mint on a laptop from 2011 a week ago, and it worked fine, like a new computer (I was a bit surprised) Plus a maths programming language. No games though
Kye 6y ago
I haven't had any problems with my new ProBook, but it also came with Windows 10 Pro. You shouldn't need a $60 upgrade just to be respected by your operating system. Microsoft is trying to live half in the service model and half in the product model. They should drop the distinction and give everyone "pro" features, all of which are basic features in any desktop-focused Linux install.
impassionedrule 6y ago
I always see people complaining about updates, but I haven't been forced to update for months. Is this some machine-specific configuration or is Windows Insiders' update model different?
reaperducer 6y ago
Once macOS includes ads Considering that iOS already includes ads, it may not be that long. - Apple Arcade ad right there at the top of the Settings app: "Apple Arcade 3 Months Available Free >" - Very often when I just want to listen to the music I purchased, I get a full-screen ad for Apple Music that takes about 20 seconds to load, and cannot be dismissed until it does. These two things are enough to get me to move to something else, if there was a viable alternative for my workflow. There isn't yet, but I'm keeping an eye out.
- SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
  Ugh, you're right. I forgot. There are only really two places to move to: Mac or Win. If you're nothing but a code jockey, then sure, *nux/bsd can replace your day-to-day, but for the rest of us, we need one of the two, usually with MSOffice. (I work with Google, even they aren't 100% google docs internally!)
1_player 6y ago
As a counter-point, having switched to Windows 10 on a custom built machine a month ago as well, from Arch Linux: > Animated ads in the start menu tiles I wouldn't know, I removed the default tiles and I'm just using stuff I manually pinned. > I've had to upgraded and restart almost every other day for 4 weeks My uptime currently is 7 days, last reboot was me wanting to manually upgrade to 20H2. YMMV. > There are ads that keep reapparing in the tiles on update Hasn't happened to me. > there are constant popus reminding me to log in to my windows account I'm using a local account, I don't get any popup to log in using my Microsoft account. > nVidia ads popping up in the lower-right corner How? I've never seen this in my life. I'm running an NVIDIA card. > MSoft ads popping up in the lower-right corner I think I got the "you should upgrade to New Edge" popup once, doesn't appear anymore because I did (I wanted to try it out) > Also, day one: tried installing some LabView software and BSOD No BSOD yet, but YMMV, drivers can vary in quality. > Starting a new app takes about 15~30 seconds I wouldn't know. I've got 64 GB of RAM and a fast NVMe. Nothing loads in more than one second from cold start for me. -- Either brand PC are loaded with additional crap (of course I ran the O&O Shut Up 10 thing just after first installation) or my experience is much nicer than I've read on this forum.
- SaltyBackendGuy 6y ago
  This have been my experience also. It takes a little bit to get the configuration where I like it, but it's solid after that. Especially if you have top tier hardware (which you can actually upgrade, which is also nice).
- trynewideas 6y ago
  I switched from Lenovo to Acer because the Lenovo crapware had become horrific. Broke my heart because I'd been a longtime ThinkPad user, but going from a solid X220 to a P1 that failed in two years, to a crapware-laden Yoga that had multiple failures in the first 6 months just killed any love I had for the brand. Acer's hardware is inferior in every measurable spec but hasn't failed me yet, and that's frankly all I want from it. It works and it stays out of my way.
- DangitBobby 6y ago
  Nvidia advertises it's new drivers in a pop-up with "GForce Experience" or whatever. You have to have an account with Nvidia (???!!?) to download this advertised driver.
sizzle 6y ago
"Win10 now looks and feels like an annoying clickbait website." Wow you succinctly captured how using Windows feels for me on a day to day basis vs Mac.
alpaca128 6y ago
> * nVidia ads popping up in the lower-right corner Sounds like you have Nvidia's "Geforce Experience"(or whatever it's called) installed. Good thing is you probably don't need it. > * Starting a new app takes about 15~30 seconds (I believe it is phoning home the way macOS does, not sure). Huh, that is weird. Have you tried turning off this phoning home feature? I think it's called SmartScreen on Windows 10 and you can disable it somewhere. But Microsoft are really the masters of UI dark patterns when it comes to this; they let you disable most of this crap during install but only via near invisible buttons to access these options. But I agree Windows 10 is insanely frustrating at times. It's what ultimately gave me the last push I needed to switch to Linux.
beachwood23 6y ago
> * Fans randomly turn on with nothing running and `powermetrics` has the fan at 3200 RPM and cpu temp of ... 40C? I literally have to reboot to get them to turn off. I walked into my office one morning and apparently the fans had been running all night with no apps loaded and nothing using considerable power. Are you plugging your power cable into the left side of your mac? I had the same issue, and plugging it into a right-sided port fixed it. It sounds like a joke, but it's real. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find-cause-of-high-kernel-task-cpu-usage/363933#363933 https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find...

puranjay 6y ago

You're getting downvoted but these are very legitimate issues. I still chose Windows but I was really, really tempted to ditch it all when they pulled off that forced Edge installation stunt a couple of months ago.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

SkyPuncher 6y ago

Oh, that's really interesting. I have a W10 that I run as a second machine. Updates are annoying (but they don't cross the line of being "terrible" for me). The ads are something that I haven't noticed. I wonder if that's manufacturer specific. I know I'm running a clean, vanilla install on my setup.

brundolf 6y ago
Yes, similar to Android, many manufacturers customize their Windows installs, and that increasingly means random ads in your system UI. Switching from Mac to Windows - especially manufacturer installs of Windows - over privacy or stability issues is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

cutemonster 6y ago

Yes Linux is nice. I installed Linux Mint on a laptop from 2011 a week ago, and it worked fine, like a new computer (I was a bit surprised) Plus a maths programming language. No games though

Kye 6y ago

I haven't had any problems with my new ProBook, but it also came with Windows 10 Pro. You shouldn't need a $60 upgrade just to be respected by your operating system. Microsoft is trying to live half in the service model and half in the product model. They should drop the distinction and give everyone "pro" features, all of which are basic features in any desktop-focused Linux install.

impassionedrule 6y ago

I always see people complaining about updates, but I haven't been forced to update for months. Is this some machine-specific configuration or is Windows Insiders' update model different?

reaperducer 6y ago

Once macOS includes ads Considering that iOS already includes ads, it may not be that long. - Apple Arcade ad right there at the top of the Settings app: "Apple Arcade 3 Months Available Free >" - Very often when I just want to listen to the music I purchased, I get a full-screen ad for Apple Music that takes about 20 seconds to load, and cannot be dismissed until it does. These two things are enough to get me to move to something else, if there was a viable alternative for my workflow. There isn't yet, but I'm keeping an eye out.

SoSoRoCoCo 6y ago
Ugh, you're right. I forgot. There are only really two places to move to: Mac or Win. If you're nothing but a code jockey, then sure, *nux/bsd can replace your day-to-day, but for the rest of us, we need one of the two, usually with MSOffice. (I work with Google, even they aren't 100% google docs internally!)

1_player 6y ago

As a counter-point, having switched to Windows 10 on a custom built machine a month ago as well, from Arch Linux: > Animated ads in the start menu tiles I wouldn't know, I removed the default tiles and I'm just using stuff I manually pinned. > I've had to upgraded and restart almost every other day for 4 weeks My uptime currently is 7 days, last reboot was me wanting to manually upgrade to 20H2. YMMV. > There are ads that keep reapparing in the tiles on update Hasn't happened to me. > there are constant popus reminding me to log in to my windows account I'm using a local account, I don't get any popup to log in using my Microsoft account. > nVidia ads popping up in the lower-right corner How? I've never seen this in my life. I'm running an NVIDIA card. > MSoft ads popping up in the lower-right corner I think I got the "you should upgrade to New Edge" popup once, doesn't appear anymore because I did (I wanted to try it out) > Also, day one: tried installing some LabView software and BSOD No BSOD yet, but YMMV, drivers can vary in quality. > Starting a new app takes about 15~30 seconds I wouldn't know. I've got 64 GB of RAM and a fast NVMe. Nothing loads in more than one second from cold start for me. -- Either brand PC are loaded with additional crap (of course I ran the O&O Shut Up 10 thing just after first installation) or my experience is much nicer than I've read on this forum.

SaltyBackendGuy 6y ago
This have been my experience also. It takes a little bit to get the configuration where I like it, but it's solid after that. Especially if you have top tier hardware (which you can actually upgrade, which is also nice).
trynewideas 6y ago
I switched from Lenovo to Acer because the Lenovo crapware had become horrific. Broke my heart because I'd been a longtime ThinkPad user, but going from a solid X220 to a P1 that failed in two years, to a crapware-laden Yoga that had multiple failures in the first 6 months just killed any love I had for the brand. Acer's hardware is inferior in every measurable spec but hasn't failed me yet, and that's frankly all I want from it. It works and it stays out of my way.
DangitBobby 6y ago
Nvidia advertises it's new drivers in a pop-up with "GForce Experience" or whatever. You have to have an account with Nvidia (???!!?) to download this advertised driver.

sizzle 6y ago

"Win10 now looks and feels like an annoying clickbait website." Wow you succinctly captured how using Windows feels for me on a day to day basis vs Mac.

alpaca128 6y ago

> * nVidia ads popping up in the lower-right corner Sounds like you have Nvidia's "Geforce Experience"(or whatever it's called) installed. Good thing is you probably don't need it. > * Starting a new app takes about 15~30 seconds (I believe it is phoning home the way macOS does, not sure). Huh, that is weird. Have you tried turning off this phoning home feature? I think it's called SmartScreen on Windows 10 and you can disable it somewhere. But Microsoft are really the masters of UI dark patterns when it comes to this; they let you disable most of this crap during install but only via near invisible buttons to access these options. But I agree Windows 10 is insanely frustrating at times. It's what ultimately gave me the last push I needed to switch to Linux.

beachwood23 6y ago

> * Fans randomly turn on with nothing running and `powermetrics` has the fan at 3200 RPM and cpu temp of ... 40C? I literally have to reboot to get them to turn off. I walked into my office one morning and apparently the fans had been running all night with no apps loaded and nothing using considerable power. Are you plugging your power cable into the left side of your mac? I had the same issue, and plugging it into a right-sided port fixed it. It sounds like a joke, but it's real. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find-cause-of-high-kernel-task-cpu-usage/363933#363933 https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find...