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This is a great illustration for folks that don't understand why the iPhone works so well. When you can compare it to a phone that has similar functionality, bu

by bprater 18y ago

This is a great illustration for folks that don't understand why the iPhone works so well. When you can compare it to a phone that has similar functionality, but fails miserable to measure up, you start to sense how important the small decisions are. It isn't good enough to have a list that scroll up-and-down when you drag your finger, but it has to do it at the right speed. It isn't good enough to toss up a keyboard when it is too small and the delete key is impossible to touch. I'm sure the OpenMoko team didn't have the resources of Apple, but to make great things you don't need to. You simply need someone obsessed with doing average things amazing.

jrockway 18y ago
There is no "OpenMoko team". If something doesn't work right in OpenMoko, it's your fault for not fixing it.
- DaniFong 18y ago
  No, it isn't. You can just decide to use something else. There's zero buy-in unless the device is already the closest thing to what you want. When it isn't, the open source community supporting that device has a major problem.
- thaumaturgy 18y ago
  OpenMoko was founded by a Taiwanese company and initial development efforts were handled by four people. | If something doesn't work right in OpenMoko, it's your fault for not fixing it. Ah, of course. Well, since I am responsible for all of OpenMoko's various problems, I am going to make the executive decision that it is beyond my ability to fix it, and abandon the project altogether. Your attitude may be correct, but it is not helpful. There's no reason to expect that someone who is knowledgeable in human interface design, or graphic design, or workflow, should also be capable of patching a system themselves, let alone dealing with the process of submitting patches. Whether you like it or not, criticism does drive development in user interface in open source projects. The programmers build something, users say, "this sucks" -- but the really helpful users say, "this sucks because ..." -- and then while a handful of people (like you) tell those users to get bent, other programmers go out and fix what the users are complaining about.
- tlrobinson 18y ago
  And what about hardware issues? The bezel that gets in the way. The slow processor. The pressure sensitive (vs. capacitive) screen. The idea of a completely open cell phone platform is nice in theory, but based on what I saw in this video they're going to have a hard time getting a critical mass of users/developers to shell out $400 for it and actually improve the thing.
  - alexfarran 18y ago
    The hardware is open source too.
  - mcxx 18y ago
    Don't underestimate open-source fans. I know a bunch of guys who just can't wait to get their hands dirty with this phone. I believe OpenMoko will be a success later on.
    - gaius 18y ago
      One word: Greenphone.
rahulgarg 18y ago
Well actually one of the reasons for the slowness in the video (disclaimer : dont own the phone, basing slowness on video) is because its processor is very slow. Its using a 400MHz ARM9 vs lets say 400MHz ARM11 on Nokia N95 or what is rumored to be 600MHz ARM11 in iPhone. edit : That should mean that the N95 has at least twice as powerful processor as freerunner and the iphone maybe even 3x faster processor. IMO the processor chosen was just plain wrong given the goal of producing a smartphone. They should have chosen a faster SoC and forgone the GPS and accelerometers.
- silencio 18y ago
  at the cost of being even more expensive than what it is now, not to mention everything else that goes into making said n95 and iPhone smaller and sexier. uhhhh...no thanks :)
  - rahulgarg 18y ago
    That is why I said they should have dropped GPS and accelerometers.
    - silencio 18y ago
      It doesn't matter. Cause if they dropped GPS and accelerometers but upgraded other components, the price would have been high but you'd be missing out on two pretty useful/important features. Don't drop it, and it's still expensive.
- st3fan 18y ago
  """Well actually one of the reasons for the slowness in the video is because its processor is very slow.""" My Apple ][ could scroll faster than that. Do you have any idea how many instructions are executed per second on a processor that ticks 400.000.000 times per second? Really, it's not a CPU speed issue. It's a bad software design issue.
thaumaturgy 18y ago
Successful open source projects tend to be very iterative. First version kinda sucks, second version still sucks but there's been some important changes, third version sucks a little less; some number of iterations later, hopefully, the project starts to become competitive with commercial offerings. Give it time. The scrolling and the keyboard will get fixed. ...One thing I thought was especially strange about the keyboard was the arrow keys (from the "More OpenMoko Train Wrecking" video, showing off the Qtopia interface). If you can interact directly with the screen, then I can't think of any reason to have arrow keys on the keyboard.
- ajross 18y ago
  That's a property of all projects, really. Even most commercial products are awful in early releases. Apple's genius is with managing to hide most of these early disasters from their customers.

by bprater 18y ago

jrockway 18y ago

There is no "OpenMoko team". If something doesn't work right in OpenMoko, it's your fault for not fixing it.

DaniFong 18y ago
No, it isn't. You can just decide to use something else. There's zero buy-in unless the device is already the closest thing to what you want. When it isn't, the open source community supporting that device has a major problem.
thaumaturgy 18y ago
OpenMoko was founded by a Taiwanese company and initial development efforts were handled by four people. | If something doesn't work right in OpenMoko, it's your fault for not fixing it. Ah, of course. Well, since I am responsible for all of OpenMoko's various problems, I am going to make the executive decision that it is beyond my ability to fix it, and abandon the project altogether. Your attitude may be correct, but it is not helpful. There's no reason to expect that someone who is knowledgeable in human interface design, or graphic design, or workflow, should also be capable of patching a system themselves, let alone dealing with the process of submitting patches. Whether you like it or not, criticism does drive development in user interface in open source projects. The programmers build something, users say, "this sucks" -- but the really helpful users say, "this sucks because ..." -- and then while a handful of people (like you) tell those users to get bent, other programmers go out and fix what the users are complaining about.
tlrobinson 18y ago
And what about hardware issues? The bezel that gets in the way. The slow processor. The pressure sensitive (vs. capacitive) screen. The idea of a completely open cell phone platform is nice in theory, but based on what I saw in this video they're going to have a hard time getting a critical mass of users/developers to shell out $400 for it and actually improve the thing.
- alexfarran 18y ago
  The hardware is open source too.
- mcxx 18y ago
  Don't underestimate open-source fans. I know a bunch of guys who just can't wait to get their hands dirty with this phone. I believe OpenMoko will be a success later on.
  - gaius 18y ago
    One word: Greenphone.

rahulgarg 18y ago

Well actually one of the reasons for the slowness in the video (disclaimer : dont own the phone, basing slowness on video) is because its processor is very slow. Its using a 400MHz ARM9 vs lets say 400MHz ARM11 on Nokia N95 or what is rumored to be 600MHz ARM11 in iPhone. edit : That should mean that the N95 has at least twice as powerful processor as freerunner and the iphone maybe even 3x faster processor. IMO the processor chosen was just plain wrong given the goal of producing a smartphone. They should have chosen a faster SoC and forgone the GPS and accelerometers.

silencio 18y ago
at the cost of being even more expensive than what it is now, not to mention everything else that goes into making said n95 and iPhone smaller and sexier. uhhhh...no thanks :)
- rahulgarg 18y ago
  That is why I said they should have dropped GPS and accelerometers.
  - silencio 18y ago
    It doesn't matter. Cause if they dropped GPS and accelerometers but upgraded other components, the price would have been high but you'd be missing out on two pretty useful/important features. Don't drop it, and it's still expensive.
st3fan 18y ago
"""Well actually one of the reasons for the slowness in the video is because its processor is very slow.""" My Apple ][ could scroll faster than that. Do you have any idea how many instructions are executed per second on a processor that ticks 400.000.000 times per second? Really, it's not a CPU speed issue. It's a bad software design issue.

thaumaturgy 18y ago

Successful open source projects tend to be very iterative. First version kinda sucks, second version still sucks but there's been some important changes, third version sucks a little less; some number of iterations later, hopefully, the project starts to become competitive with commercial offerings. Give it time. The scrolling and the keyboard will get fixed. ...One thing I thought was especially strange about the keyboard was the arrow keys (from the "More OpenMoko Train Wrecking" video, showing off the Qtopia interface). If you can interact directly with the screen, then I can't think of any reason to have arrow keys on the keyboard.

ajross 18y ago
That's a property of all projects, really. Even most commercial products are awful in early releases. Apple's genius is with managing to hide most of these early disasters from their customers.