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For the record, I dislike this practice...but to play devil's advocate (pls don't downvote for playing devil's advocate LOL) If I go to Google and I type in {n

by fma 6y ago

For the record, I dislike this practice...but to play devil's advocate (pls don't downvote for playing devil's advocate LOL) If I go to Google and I type in {name of my favorite restaurant}...and the first link on top is an ad placed by that restaurant, and below it is the actual restaurant's website...If I click on that ad, Google will charge that restaurant money, when it just redirects me to the website. In this case, GrubHub is claiming that they placed the phone number on Yelp, so they get money. I mean I think paying $8 (or whatever percentage of an order is) for that redirect is highway robbery given thin margins for a restaurant...

jtsiskin 6y ago
Whats the argument here? Most people would agree that what Google is doing is also immoral. But ignoring that, I don't see the equivalency - you are paying Google to prevent someone else from paying them more and showing up above you; in the Yelp case, your phone number already existed on Yelp, and someone is already on the page, yet GrubHub still adds their number.
- fma 6y ago
  Just pointing out that it's typical for tech companies to employ dark pattern for monetization in instances where they are providing no value. Playing wack-a-mole won't help and we probably need some sort of legislation to prove value is being provided before being charged. (BTW I don't believe paying Google to prevent being above me is value ad. The intention of the searcher is known) Another example is how Google charges an app creator 30% if someone purchases a subscription. A charge that occurs every, single, month despite Google providing no value after the first month. What's an app owner to do? Push for Apple store...where also take 30% cut?
gnicholas 6y ago
There are two differences: 1: There is no way for the customer to tell that the phone number is not 100% organic. On Google, you can tell it's an ad (even if this is getting harder as Google disguises ads more and more). 2: Grubhub didn't place phone numbers on Yelp. Yelp has had phone numbers since day 1. If Grubhub puts menus or something on Yelp and someone uses that to place an order more efficiently, then they would be adding some value. That still wouldn't justify charging a premium without telling/asking either party, but I would at least agree there is some value-add there (but only for customers who actually look at the GrubHub-provided menu before calling in).
zem 6y ago
the google ad is clearly marked as an ad. the yelp phone number hijacking does not have "order via grubhub" anywhere.

by fma 6y ago

jtsiskin 6y ago

Whats the argument here? Most people would agree that what Google is doing is also immoral. But ignoring that, I don't see the equivalency - you are paying Google to prevent someone else from paying them more and showing up above you; in the Yelp case, your phone number already existed on Yelp, and someone is already on the page, yet GrubHub still adds their number.

fma 6y ago
Just pointing out that it's typical for tech companies to employ dark pattern for monetization in instances where they are providing no value. Playing wack-a-mole won't help and we probably need some sort of legislation to prove value is being provided before being charged. (BTW I don't believe paying Google to prevent being above me is value ad. The intention of the searcher is known) Another example is how Google charges an app creator 30% if someone purchases a subscription. A charge that occurs every, single, month despite Google providing no value after the first month. What's an app owner to do? Push for Apple store...where also take 30% cut?

gnicholas 6y ago

There are two differences: 1: There is no way for the customer to tell that the phone number is not 100% organic. On Google, you can tell it's an ad (even if this is getting harder as Google disguises ads more and more). 2: Grubhub didn't place phone numbers on Yelp. Yelp has had phone numbers since day 1. If Grubhub puts menus or something on Yelp and someone uses that to place an order more efficiently, then they would be adding some value. That still wouldn't justify charging a premium without telling/asking either party, but I would at least agree there is some value-add there (but only for customers who actually look at the GrubHub-provided menu before calling in).

zem 6y ago

the google ad is clearly marked as an ad. the yelp phone number hijacking does not have "order via grubhub" anywhere.