3 ms·

This is really just normal life for a lot (most?) people.

by jariel 6y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
Writing about life isn't the same as living life. That's always been true. This particular writing was of a quality that I think few of us could match. That it was about something fairly "normal" doesn't change that. I also wonder just what aspects of what she wrote about you consider "normal". Maine has a small population, there are very few fishermen working today. What are the elements here that are "just normal life for a lot(most?) people" ?
- jariel 6y ago
  "What are the elements here that are "just normal life for a lot(most?) people" ?" Fishing is one of the absolute most ancient forms of tradecraft, dating back 10's of thousands of years and basically universal in the human condition. There is a port in Nice, France, for small boats (it's a natural harbour) and a fish market there a few times a week that that has been going on, fairly uninterrupted for thousands of years. Literally you buy buy fish on the same terms as Phoenicians and Greeks before the Roman Empire. The livelihoods surrounding most of these trades, and frankly most 'working people' is extremely common and normative, and could hardly be Romanticized by anyone but a fairly small (but growing) group of people living in modernist bubbles, almost detached from the entire history of 'common culture'. The writing is nice, but the perspective of the alien observer, an 'outsider' to what would otherwise be be literally normative life for regular people, is almost a little eerie.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    So sure, fishing is something humans have done for a long time. But hardly any human beings at all (as a percentage of the population, certainly) now take part in this activity. Growing food was once the preoccupation of almost every human being alive - in the USA it now employs around 1% of the population, and most people have almost no understanding of how to grow food at all (and certainly could not farm, evne if they have a small garden). The working activities described in the essay has almost no relationship with normal life for the vast majority of people living in industrialized countries around the world.
    - jariel 6y ago
      " hardly any human beings at all (as a percentage of the population, certainly) now take part in this activity." Of course - my point is that these are very common, old, normative activities, the type of which most people are around quite a lot. It could have been carpentry. People 'work for the summer' on 'these types of jobs' all the time, there's generally not a lot to write about.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
        And my point is that these are not very common activities in industrialized societies. I don't what you mean by "around quite a lot" ... I suspect that very few people have been within 100' of any carpentry for their entire lives. Working for the summer in jobs like this is mostly the preserve of college students, and only a small fraction of them at that - most will do very different kinds of summer jobs, if they do them at all (there's lots of evidence that those kinds of summer jobs are now taken by adults already in the workforce). Maybe you live in a more rural area that has lots of this sort of work available and lots of people doing it. As far as I know, that is unusual, and not "normative" for most of the population. There's normally a lot to write about no matter how "normative" or even mundane one's life is. It's not about the activities per se, but about how you reflect on them and connect them with other aspects of living. A classic example would be a book like "House" by Tracey Kidder, which documents in huge detail and considerable philosophical diversions a process that I suspect you would claim happens so frequently and repetitively that it's not worth writing about. Millions of people disagreed with you.
        jariel 6y ago
        " these are not very common activities in industrialized societies" Of course they are. They're just regular jobs. If you live near the ocean, there are people who fish, if you live inland, there are people who farm - and the myriad of various related activities. And a million mundane things in between. And no, they're definitely not the 'providence of college kids'. Having grown up around 'house builders', no, I don't really think there's that much philosophical insight in that activity either, but for those who don't have any of those skill and want to try it out, I'm sure it would be an interesting exercise.
  - horns4lyfe 6y ago
    Maybe, but I'm not at all interested in reading about what a normal life is for me, I want to read about different experiences.

This is really just normal life for a lot (most?) people.

by jariel 6y ago

This is really just normal life for a lot (most?) people.

Writing about life isn't the same as living life. That's always been true. This particular writing was of a quality that I think few of us could match. That it was about something fairly "normal" doesn't change that. I also wonder just what aspects of what she wrote about you consider "normal". Maine has a small population, there are very few fishermen working today. What are the elements here that are "just normal life for a lot(most?) people" ?

jariel 6y ago
"What are the elements here that are "just normal life for a lot(most?) people" ?" Fishing is one of the absolute most ancient forms of tradecraft, dating back 10's of thousands of years and basically universal in the human condition. There is a port in Nice, France, for small boats (it's a natural harbour) and a fish market there a few times a week that that has been going on, fairly uninterrupted for thousands of years. Literally you buy buy fish on the same terms as Phoenicians and Greeks before the Roman Empire. The livelihoods surrounding most of these trades, and frankly most 'working people' is extremely common and normative, and could hardly be Romanticized by anyone but a fairly small (but growing) group of people living in modernist bubbles, almost detached from the entire history of 'common culture'. The writing is nice, but the perspective of the alien observer, an 'outsider' to what would otherwise be be literally normative life for regular people, is almost a little eerie.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  So sure, fishing is something humans have done for a long time. But hardly any human beings at all (as a percentage of the population, certainly) now take part in this activity. Growing food was once the preoccupation of almost every human being alive - in the USA it now employs around 1% of the population, and most people have almost no understanding of how to grow food at all (and certainly could not farm, evne if they have a small garden). The working activities described in the essay has almost no relationship with normal life for the vast majority of people living in industrialized countries around the world.
  - jariel 6y ago
    " hardly any human beings at all (as a percentage of the population, certainly) now take part in this activity." Of course - my point is that these are very common, old, normative activities, the type of which most people are around quite a lot. It could have been carpentry. People 'work for the summer' on 'these types of jobs' all the time, there's generally not a lot to write about.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
      And my point is that these are not very common activities in industrialized societies. I don't what you mean by "around quite a lot" ... I suspect that very few people have been within 100' of any carpentry for their entire lives. Working for the summer in jobs like this is mostly the preserve of college students, and only a small fraction of them at that - most will do very different kinds of summer jobs, if they do them at all (there's lots of evidence that those kinds of summer jobs are now taken by adults already in the workforce). Maybe you live in a more rural area that has lots of this sort of work available and lots of people doing it. As far as I know, that is unusual, and not "normative" for most of the population. There's normally a lot to write about no matter how "normative" or even mundane one's life is. It's not about the activities per se, but about how you reflect on them and connect them with other aspects of living. A classic example would be a book like "House" by Tracey Kidder, which documents in huge detail and considerable philosophical diversions a process that I suspect you would claim happens so frequently and repetitively that it's not worth writing about. Millions of people disagreed with you.
      - jariel 6y ago
        " these are not very common activities in industrialized societies" Of course they are. They're just regular jobs. If you live near the ocean, there are people who fish, if you live inland, there are people who farm - and the myriad of various related activities. And a million mundane things in between. And no, they're definitely not the 'providence of college kids'. Having grown up around 'house builders', no, I don't really think there's that much philosophical insight in that activity either, but for those who don't have any of those skill and want to try it out, I'm sure it would be an interesting exercise.
- horns4lyfe 6y ago
  Maybe, but I'm not at all interested in reading about what a normal life is for me, I want to read about different experiences.