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This is not correct. If you adjust for population size, most of highly-developed Europe is doing much worse than the USA right now. That includes Germany, Switz

by esja 6y ago

This is not correct. If you adjust for population size, most of highly-developed Europe is doing much worse than the USA right now. That includes Germany, Switzerland, etc.

pedrocr 6y ago
The US has had 34k cases and 760 deaths per million people. Germany has had 10k cases and 152 deaths per million people. So Germany has done 3 to 5 times better than the US so far. The only Western European country that has clearly worse numbers than the US is Belgium and in part that may be because they have a much broader definition of deaths with COVID19. Data from here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
- dwaltrip 6y ago
  France and Spain have very similar numbers to the US, and the UK and Italy are fairly close as well.
  - pedrocr 6y ago
    That doesn't contradict anything I've said or support what I was replying to.
    - dwaltrip 6y ago
      I agree, I just wanted to make it extra clear for others how several large European countries seem to have numbers similar to the US (Ironically... I could have phrased it in a way that made that more clear to you.) It seems to me that all remaining levels and sub-sectors of American society have responded reasonably competently, despite the grossly negligent and incompetent response (potentially even criminal?) from the administration.
    - buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
      But it does show that you cherry-picked data that didn't give the full story. The follow up comment only made things more clear, which I think you should appreciate.
      - pedrocr 6y ago
        I didn't cherry pick, I was in fact exhaustive. I was looking for cases that supported "most of highly-developed Europe is doing much worse than the USA" and specifically mentioned Germany. I looked at the specific cases mentioned and any others that could be classified as "much worse".
        esja 6y ago
        You completely ignored the current situation in Europe, which is what I was referring to.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- esja 6y ago
  Aperocky said "right now". And right now, the situation in Europe is objectively worse than the USA.
  - pedrocr 6y ago
    How do you figure that? Taking the example of Germany, their numbers of new cases and new deaths from the same source are ~2x less than the US per population. By what metric is Germany doing much worse than the USA right now?
    - esja 6y ago
      Germany is basically the best case for Europe and had 199 deaths today, with a quarter the population of the US (who had 485 deaths). * 506 deaths in France (a fifth of the US population) * 213 in the UK (equiv. to 1000/day in the US) * Switzerland tracking at 100 deaths a day, equivalent to over 4000/day in the US * 162 deaths in Czechia, equiv. to 5346/day in the US Look it up yourself: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerland https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerlan... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/czech-republic/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/czech-repu...
      - pedrocr 6y ago
        I did look it up myself. I used the 7 day moving average to get more stable results and Germany is 2x better than the US in new cases/deaths per million right now even while having 3 to 5x less cases/death in total since the start which means it also has a more vulnerable population at this point. I didn't pick Germany, you did, and claimed it was "much worse". And it's not the best case, there are several countries doing better or much better than Germany. As for the other examples Europe is now having a second wave after successfully suppressing the first one. The US has never suppressed the pandemic, or at best is now at a third wave, and thus has a currently less susceptible population from all the cases and deaths it has already had. And even then it's still having more new cases and new deaths than the well managed countries in Europe (Germany, Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc). It's hardly in a better situation right now as you claim. The worst countries in Europe are at the US accumulated average, some are catching up but the US is also spiking right now.
dredmorbius 6y ago
False. At this writing, Europe as a whole has a population of 747.8 million, and 14.1 million COVID-19 cases, for a population-adjusted rate of 18,900 per million. The US incidence rate is 34,400/1M, 182% of Europe's. For mortality, EU: 434/1M US: 760/1M. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-popula...
- esja 6y ago
  It's not false at all. The key words are "right now". You are including numbers from months ago.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    EU has 8.57m active cases for a 11,500/1M active case rate. US has 4.23m active cases, for 12,800/1M active case rate. Note that Spain, UK, Netherlands, and Sweden don't report on active or recovered cases. Nor does the US state of Oregon. The margin is much thinner, though reported data still give the edge to the EU. Given that Spain and the UK represent large current EU outbreaks, that margin could shift to the advantage of the US. I'll note that US cases are continuing to grow largely unhindered whilst several EU outbreaks (notably France) may have peaked as lockdowns' impacts are seen.
    - esja 6y ago
      Europes daily deaths per head of population are currently much higher than the US. See my comment & links above.
      - dredmorbius 6y ago
        Very flawed analysis. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25117779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25117779
        6y ago
esja 6y ago
Why the downvotes? This is a factual description of the current situation in Europe, i.e. what is happening right now.

by esja 6y ago

This is not correct. If you adjust for population size, most of highly-developed Europe is doing much worse than the USA right now. That includes Germany, Switzerland, etc.

pedrocr 6y ago

The US has had 34k cases and 760 deaths per million people. Germany has had 10k cases and 152 deaths per million people. So Germany has done 3 to 5 times better than the US so far. The only Western European country that has clearly worse numbers than the US is Belgium and in part that may be because they have a much broader definition of deaths with COVID19. Data from here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

dwaltrip 6y ago
France and Spain have very similar numbers to the US, and the UK and Italy are fairly close as well.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  That doesn't contradict anything I've said or support what I was replying to.
  - dwaltrip 6y ago
    I agree, I just wanted to make it extra clear for others how several large European countries seem to have numbers similar to the US (Ironically... I could have phrased it in a way that made that more clear to you.) It seems to me that all remaining levels and sub-sectors of American society have responded reasonably competently, despite the grossly negligent and incompetent response (potentially even criminal?) from the administration.
  - buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
    But it does show that you cherry-picked data that didn't give the full story. The follow up comment only made things more clear, which I think you should appreciate.
    - pedrocr 6y ago
      I didn't cherry pick, I was in fact exhaustive. I was looking for cases that supported "most of highly-developed Europe is doing much worse than the USA" and specifically mentioned Germany. I looked at the specific cases mentioned and any others that could be classified as "much worse".
      - esja 6y ago
        You completely ignored the current situation in Europe, which is what I was referring to.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
esja 6y ago
Aperocky said "right now". And right now, the situation in Europe is objectively worse than the USA.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  How do you figure that? Taking the example of Germany, their numbers of new cases and new deaths from the same source are ~2x less than the US per population. By what metric is Germany doing much worse than the USA right now?
  - esja 6y ago
    Germany is basically the best case for Europe and had 199 deaths today, with a quarter the population of the US (who had 485 deaths). * 506 deaths in France (a fifth of the US population) * 213 in the UK (equiv. to 1000/day in the US) * Switzerland tracking at 100 deaths a day, equivalent to over 4000/day in the US * 162 deaths in Czechia, equiv. to 5346/day in the US Look it up yourself: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerland https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/switzerlan... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/czech-republic/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/czech-repu...
    - pedrocr 6y ago
      I did look it up myself. I used the 7 day moving average to get more stable results and Germany is 2x better than the US in new cases/deaths per million right now even while having 3 to 5x less cases/death in total since the start which means it also has a more vulnerable population at this point. I didn't pick Germany, you did, and claimed it was "much worse". And it's not the best case, there are several countries doing better or much better than Germany. As for the other examples Europe is now having a second wave after successfully suppressing the first one. The US has never suppressed the pandemic, or at best is now at a third wave, and thus has a currently less susceptible population from all the cases and deaths it has already had. And even then it's still having more new cases and new deaths than the well managed countries in Europe (Germany, Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc). It's hardly in a better situation right now as you claim. The worst countries in Europe are at the US accumulated average, some are catching up but the US is also spiking right now.

dredmorbius 6y ago

False. At this writing, Europe as a whole has a population of 747.8 million, and 14.1 million COVID-19 cases, for a population-adjusted rate of 18,900 per million. The US incidence rate is 34,400/1M, 182% of Europe's. For mortality, EU: 434/1M US: 760/1M. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-popula...

esja 6y ago
It's not false at all. The key words are "right now". You are including numbers from months ago.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  EU has 8.57m active cases for a 11,500/1M active case rate. US has 4.23m active cases, for 12,800/1M active case rate. Note that Spain, UK, Netherlands, and Sweden don't report on active or recovered cases. Nor does the US state of Oregon. The margin is much thinner, though reported data still give the edge to the EU. Given that Spain and the UK represent large current EU outbreaks, that margin could shift to the advantage of the US. I'll note that US cases are continuing to grow largely unhindered whilst several EU outbreaks (notably France) may have peaked as lockdowns' impacts are seen.
  - esja 6y ago
    Europes daily deaths per head of population are currently much higher than the US. See my comment & links above.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      Very flawed analysis. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25117779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25117779
      - 6y ago

esja 6y ago

Why the downvotes? This is a factual description of the current situation in Europe, i.e. what is happening right now.