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I live in a country with socialized medicine. People trust the healthcare system since we "pay" 0$ for access. (pay in quotes since obviously taxes are signific

I live in a country with socialized medicine. People trust the healthcare system since we "pay" 0$ for access. (pay in quotes since obviously taxes are significantly higher) And Drs. I know are great at listening! I'd honestly go as far as to say they listen too much at times; I don't tell a mechanic how to do his job, it's not my place to tell a Dr. how to fix me since I have literal 0 understanding of the human body. Again, maybe its a socialized medicine vs privatized medicine problem, but it absolutely boggles my mind the level of distrust in what should be a respected profession. My comments aren't meant to disparage, but point out that colloquial evidence is not a substitute for research and the scientific method. I will call baloney on people who spew it.

boringg 6y ago
Having lived in both privatized and socialized medical systems I actually find that the privatized health care system was better at listening. It cost more money, but it was definitely better bar none. I think doctors are as good as their tools (education) and the feed back they get. They can only listen to what patients say, however most people aren't able to explain in detail what is going on. As well, western medicine tries to focus on specific locations/ailments and can miss the holistic portion of sickness. This challenge is compounded by the fact that many illness have similar symptoms and human bodies are intensely complicated. I don't trust a doctor 100% (many of my friends do) however I do put a fair bit of faith in their training. Anything serious requires more research on my own as doctors are fallible. The thought you raise that you shouldn't challenge or ask questions of what a doctor is telling you is quite alarming and I would wager that kind of laziness leads to poor health outcomes. As I said, doctors are human and are fallible, the research (i.e. human health systems) is not complete, and they are working on deeply complex issues that have incredible amounts of interactions that are unknown and incredibly challenging. That said - the doctor better be able to explain in a straightforward manner in order to gain trust. And any profession that you should just "inherently trust" allows openings for laziness, abuse and bad outcomes. Strongly disagree with you.
- boringg 6y ago
  I should make clear my opinion - I do trust western medicine, vaccines, science et al. I do not however trust them 100% - mistakes are made, and this is my life. I can question them, and I should. Their role is to instill trust and not disregard peoples concerns out of hand.
  - wobblyasp 6y ago
    For sure; and I'm not saying we should give people carte blanch. But those mistakes, errors, whatever we want to call them, are the exception, not the rule. Do you distrust your co-workers if they make a single mistake?
    - boringg 6y ago
      My co-workers aren't responsible for the quality and length of my life. Their mistakes have an incredibly small impact compared to a mistake by a doctor (depending on the scope of problem).
    - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
      Do you have factual references for the claim about errors in medical care being exceptional? From impartial sources? I'm honestly skeptical of the claim based on my life experience. I've heard directly from people of numerous of terrible errors that destroyed their lives. e.g. bone implants that were poisonous, different implants that weren't sterilized properly, forced saving of patient life to charge/steal his assets instead of passing to family - direct from people I know well, that happened to them. Then I've personally experienced a common pattern of doctors not being able to identify things that weren't common or obvious based on their flowchart style diagnosis. I've also experienced a lot of successful diagnosis of simpler obvious issues.
- wobblyasp 6y ago
  What if there aren't straightforward explanations to what needs to be done? Should I not trust my Dr because they can't bring complex medical concepts down to my level? Do clients of software development companies require that the developer explain things in "clear terms" for them? I thought we called that marketing wank. Drs, nurses, and all other medical professionals are required to do training/recertification in my country. I "inherently trust" them because the system allows me to. As for private vs. socialized, that will always be a point of contention. Some people want to be able to choose, but even being able to choose shows some amount of (and I hate this word) privileges. The vast majority of people simply do not have the financial means to "choose" a Dr in a privatized system; if they can even get access to one. Why do we trust professionals so little?

boringg 6y ago

Having lived in both privatized and socialized medical systems I actually find that the privatized health care system was better at listening. It cost more money, but it was definitely better bar none. I think doctors are as good as their tools (education) and the feed back they get. They can only listen to what patients say, however most people aren't able to explain in detail what is going on. As well, western medicine tries to focus on specific locations/ailments and can miss the holistic portion of sickness. This challenge is compounded by the fact that many illness have similar symptoms and human bodies are intensely complicated. I don't trust a doctor 100% (many of my friends do) however I do put a fair bit of faith in their training. Anything serious requires more research on my own as doctors are fallible. The thought you raise that you shouldn't challenge or ask questions of what a doctor is telling you is quite alarming and I would wager that kind of laziness leads to poor health outcomes. As I said, doctors are human and are fallible, the research (i.e. human health systems) is not complete, and they are working on deeply complex issues that have incredible amounts of interactions that are unknown and incredibly challenging. That said - the doctor better be able to explain in a straightforward manner in order to gain trust. And any profession that you should just "inherently trust" allows openings for laziness, abuse and bad outcomes. Strongly disagree with you.

boringg 6y ago
I should make clear my opinion - I do trust western medicine, vaccines, science et al. I do not however trust them 100% - mistakes are made, and this is my life. I can question them, and I should. Their role is to instill trust and not disregard peoples concerns out of hand.
- wobblyasp 6y ago
  For sure; and I'm not saying we should give people carte blanch. But those mistakes, errors, whatever we want to call them, are the exception, not the rule. Do you distrust your co-workers if they make a single mistake?
  - boringg 6y ago
    My co-workers aren't responsible for the quality and length of my life. Their mistakes have an incredibly small impact compared to a mistake by a doctor (depending on the scope of problem).
  - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
    Do you have factual references for the claim about errors in medical care being exceptional? From impartial sources? I'm honestly skeptical of the claim based on my life experience. I've heard directly from people of numerous of terrible errors that destroyed their lives. e.g. bone implants that were poisonous, different implants that weren't sterilized properly, forced saving of patient life to charge/steal his assets instead of passing to family - direct from people I know well, that happened to them. Then I've personally experienced a common pattern of doctors not being able to identify things that weren't common or obvious based on their flowchart style diagnosis. I've also experienced a lot of successful diagnosis of simpler obvious issues.
wobblyasp 6y ago
What if there aren't straightforward explanations to what needs to be done? Should I not trust my Dr because they can't bring complex medical concepts down to my level? Do clients of software development companies require that the developer explain things in "clear terms" for them? I thought we called that marketing wank. Drs, nurses, and all other medical professionals are required to do training/recertification in my country. I "inherently trust" them because the system allows me to. As for private vs. socialized, that will always be a point of contention. Some people want to be able to choose, but even being able to choose shows some amount of (and I hate this word) privileges. The vast majority of people simply do not have the financial means to "choose" a Dr in a privatized system; if they can even get access to one. Why do we trust professionals so little?