4 ms·

This is how you don't get to herd immunity and how you crash the economy for years.

anoncake 6y ago
You can't expect someone to take a rushed vaccine because other people are panicking. Lockdowns are what crash the economy, not the virus.
- earhart 6y ago
  Evidence? (My own suspicion is that the lockdowns are better for the economy in the long run, but I’m definitely not an expert.)
  - rs999gti 6y ago
    Better? Explain
    - nobody9999 6y ago
      >Better? Explain Not GP, but it seems to me that given the large consumer spending portion of GDP (~70% in the US) in developed countries, anything that will limit folks going out and spending money, like: 1. Retail sales; 2. Air/rail/bus travel; 3. Going to bars/restaurants; 4. Hospitality (hotels/cruises); 5. Theater/concerts; 6. Public transportation. Is likely to have significant negative effect on the economy as a whole until the majority of the population is convinced that they won't become sick and/or put their vulnerable loved ones at risk. As such, it seems to me that we won't be able to resuscitate the economy fully until we have some semblance of herd immunity. Whether that herd immunity comes from a vaccine or millions of deaths and tens of millions of long-term effects, or from a broadly deployed vaccine will also have significant economic impact. tl;dr: if many/most won't go to the mall, the pub or Mallorca, the economy will continue to flounder. We won't get past that until people feel safe around others.
      - nobody9999 6y ago
        Apparently some folks disagree with my assessment/reasoning. It would be nice to know what, exactly, I seem to be missing. Both for my own edification as well as enhancing the discussion around this.
  - logicchains 6y ago
    Just compare the GDP hit taken by Japan and Korea, which had essentially no lockdowns, with that taken by the European countries that locked down. Places with extensive lockdowns had GDP fall by 5-10 percentage points more. Or compare US states with more lockdowns vs those with less or no lockdown: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/red-states-are-outperforming-blue-states-economically https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/red-states-are-outpe....
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Because a temporarily modestly increased death rate wouldn't cause the damage we are currently doing to ourselves.
- beamatronic 6y ago
  If you’re doing it right, lockdowns are coordinated and brief.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    That just means they are less harmful, but still harmful.
    - redisman 6y ago
      Are you pretending like not locking down this winter for example would have no negative effects on the economy?
HideousKojima 6y ago
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I'm not eager to be a guinea pig for anything that's been rushed through every approval stage. Especially since those approval stages were created in response to very real issues with vaccines that hadn't been discovered in early development and testing
- rs999gti 6y ago
  Not an anti-vaxxer either but I don’t want to be the first to try something that is basically rushed to fix COVID, which has a 99% survival rate. Please put it through proper animal and human trials before subjecting the populous to it.
  - redisman 6y ago
    What do you think these results are from?
rs999gti 6y ago
No the lockdowns and still panicking US Governors crashed the economy. I’d rather wait for a full FDA test and clearance on the vaccine than rush to be a guinea pig. This isn’t a movie, people aren’t dropping dead from COVID unless they have comorbidity that puts them at risk.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  Does having a comorbidity mean they deserve it?
  - logicchains 6y ago
    If the comorbidity is obesity, which in most cases results from lifestyle choices, it's hardly fair for them to ask others to make sacrifices to protect them from the consequences of their own lifestyle choices.
    - moron4hire 6y ago
      Either explain how your position differs from "fat people deserve to die" or start using clearer language.
      - logicchains 6y ago
        It's not "fat people deserve to die", it's "people who made good life choices don't deserve to have their livelihoods destroyed to reduce the risk of fat people dying".

You can't expect someone to take a rushed vaccine because other people are panicking. Lockdowns are what crash the economy, not the virus.

earhart 6y ago
Evidence? (My own suspicion is that the lockdowns are better for the economy in the long run, but I’m definitely not an expert.)
- rs999gti 6y ago
  Better? Explain
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >Better? Explain Not GP, but it seems to me that given the large consumer spending portion of GDP (~70% in the US) in developed countries, anything that will limit folks going out and spending money, like: 1. Retail sales; 2. Air/rail/bus travel; 3. Going to bars/restaurants; 4. Hospitality (hotels/cruises); 5. Theater/concerts; 6. Public transportation. Is likely to have significant negative effect on the economy as a whole until the majority of the population is convinced that they won't become sick and/or put their vulnerable loved ones at risk. As such, it seems to me that we won't be able to resuscitate the economy fully until we have some semblance of herd immunity. Whether that herd immunity comes from a vaccine or millions of deaths and tens of millions of long-term effects, or from a broadly deployed vaccine will also have significant economic impact. tl;dr: if many/most won't go to the mall, the pub or Mallorca, the economy will continue to flounder. We won't get past that until people feel safe around others.
    - nobody9999 6y ago
      Apparently some folks disagree with my assessment/reasoning. It would be nice to know what, exactly, I seem to be missing. Both for my own edification as well as enhancing the discussion around this.
- logicchains 6y ago
  Just compare the GDP hit taken by Japan and Korea, which had essentially no lockdowns, with that taken by the European countries that locked down. Places with extensive lockdowns had GDP fall by 5-10 percentage points more. Or compare US states with more lockdowns vs those with less or no lockdown: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/red-states-are-outperforming-blue-states-economically https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/red-states-are-outpe....
- anoncake 6y ago
  Because a temporarily modestly increased death rate wouldn't cause the damage we are currently doing to ourselves.
beamatronic 6y ago
If you’re doing it right, lockdowns are coordinated and brief.
- anoncake 6y ago
  That just means they are less harmful, but still harmful.
  - redisman 6y ago
    Are you pretending like not locking down this winter for example would have no negative effects on the economy?

HideousKojima 6y ago

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I'm not eager to be a guinea pig for anything that's been rushed through every approval stage. Especially since those approval stages were created in response to very real issues with vaccines that hadn't been discovered in early development and testing

rs999gti 6y ago
Not an anti-vaxxer either but I don’t want to be the first to try something that is basically rushed to fix COVID, which has a 99% survival rate. Please put it through proper animal and human trials before subjecting the populous to it.
- redisman 6y ago
  What do you think these results are from?

rs999gti 6y ago

No the lockdowns and still panicking US Governors crashed the economy. I’d rather wait for a full FDA test and clearance on the vaccine than rush to be a guinea pig. This isn’t a movie, people aren’t dropping dead from COVID unless they have comorbidity that puts them at risk.

moron4hire 6y ago
Does having a comorbidity mean they deserve it?
- logicchains 6y ago
  If the comorbidity is obesity, which in most cases results from lifestyle choices, it's hardly fair for them to ask others to make sacrifices to protect them from the consequences of their own lifestyle choices.
  - moron4hire 6y ago
    Either explain how your position differs from "fat people deserve to die" or start using clearer language.
    - logicchains 6y ago
      It's not "fat people deserve to die", it's "people who made good life choices don't deserve to have their livelihoods destroyed to reduce the risk of fat people dying".