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Hold on a second. The Russian vaccine has 92%? And is available for months already. WTF is happening actually? Did the governments around the world smeared Russ

Hold on a second. The Russian vaccine has 92%? And is available for months already. WTF is happening actually? Did the governments around the world smeared Russian one on previous months mocking it and ridicule it in order to allow a Western company to achieve the same protection for the love of money? If that's the case I hope people with deaths in their families will sue their governments/health organizations to hell and back. This screams of greed for money not on back of ordinary citizen, but literally on their life.

belval 6y ago
The Russian vaccine (Sputnik V) was not available and as far as I can tell still isn't. The Russian government rubber stamped it before it had gone through proper trials. See: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/health/russia-coronavirus-vaccine-sputnik-v-reality-check/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/health/russia-coronavirus-vac... (If you dislike CNN feel free to Google "Sputnik V" for plenty of other sources on why this vaccine seems very sketchy).
- collyw 6y ago
  The western vaccines appear to be getting emergency approval as well, no? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-emergency-use-authorization-fda/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-emergency-...
  - klmr 6y ago
    Emergency approval ≠ rubber-stamping. The “Western” vaccines are still going through proper (if accelerated) clinical trials. The Russian vaccine’s supposed efficacy and safety was announced before starting the phase III trials. That’s what’s rightly being mocked.
    - collyw 6y ago
      The western one is being rushed through a lot quicker than usual. We can't possibly know about long term effects.
      - klmr 6y ago
        We can’t know about long-term effects from the clinical trials. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t know anything about possible long-term effects — in fact, that’s categorically false. We know quite a lot about the underlying biology of these vaccines, and we have extensive data from animal testing. We can’t exclude all long-term effects but we know that they’re rather unlikely — mostly because there’s no plausible biological mechanism to cause them. In particular, based on our biological knowledge, we can categorically exclude claims from conspiracy theorists about the RNA likely being integrated into our genome: this just isn’t how any of this works, it’s fiction.
        collyw 6y ago
        So what exactly do we know? From wikipedia: "mRNA vaccines are new, and before 2020, no mRNA technology platform had ever been authorized for human use, and thus there is the risk of unknown effects, both short and longer-term." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine The UK government is producing AI software to "to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs)" https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0 https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN... But yes, label people questioning the rushed out vaccine as "conspiracy theorists".
        klmr 6y ago
        > So what exactly do we know? A lot more than you’ll find easily digestible in a single Wikipedia article. > The UK government is producing AI software to "to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs)" The volume is expected to be high not because many actual, serious averse reactions are expected but because the vaccines are expected to be given to many people at once, and every potential averse reaction will be recorded. Most records in such ADR databases are causally unrelated to the vaccine, and merely occur coincidentally; and the vast (>99%) majority of the rest are occasional mild reactions. > But yes, label people questioning the rushed out vaccine as "conspiracy theorists". I’m not. I’m labelling specifically those people as conspiracy theorists who make up bullshit that isn’t based on actual biology but rather on complete fiction. In other words, who spew baseless lies. I’m all for robustly criticising these vaccines. But it has to happen scientifically, and by experts.
tgb 6y ago
It's being mocked for being insufficiently well tested. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/russia-s-claim-successful-covid-19-vaccine-doesn-t-pass-smell-test-critics-say https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/russia-s-claim-succe...
antsoul 6y ago
Also before Pfizer and Moderna results, we just got a scary mutation on the spike protein in Minks farms in Denmark. This could easily make any vaccine based on the spike protein worthless, which may explain why suddenly western companies starts selling their vaccines... And a personal comment : you should forget the idea that the Law will protect you from bad government/institutions decisions.
- tonyarkles 6y ago
  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03218-z https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03218-z Tentative good news at least that the mutations hopefully won’t derail things!
thrawn0r 6y ago
There was no data on the Russian Sputnik vaccine before, but it get inject folks anyways. They got rightly criticised for this reckless and unscientific behaviour.
FranzFerdiNaN 6y ago
Russia's claims are incredibly suspect. See https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/the-russian-vaccine https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/th... for an explanation why.
SamBam 6y ago
You seem to be implying that it was "mocked" because the protection rate was "only" 92%. That was never the reason that it was mocked, and I'm curious where you got that impression.
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  No, I did not implied that. It was ridiculed because it got approved before proper trials, or at least that's what Western media that I am reading daily told me. I don't speak Russian so I can't read their media to see what's happening there. And now the same Western media that is praising Pfizer / Moderna is telling me Russian one is on par. So what happened? is the Russian one just as good, in which case past months were used to let people die or is not?!!
  - SamBam 6y ago
    What media were you reading that implied the Russian one was on par? Most reporting that I've read has always included the caveat that the drug never completed serious clinical trials.
bhickey 6y ago
The Russian vaccine uses an adenovirus vector. It's unlikely to work in people who were previously infected with adenovirus.
rsynnott 6y ago
The Russian vaccine isn't _really_ available; it's effectively in a phase 3 trial.

belval 6y ago

The Russian vaccine (Sputnik V) was not available and as far as I can tell still isn't. The Russian government rubber stamped it before it had gone through proper trials. See: https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/health/russia-coronavirus-vaccine-sputnik-v-reality-check/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/27/health/russia-coronavirus-vac... (If you dislike CNN feel free to Google "Sputnik V" for plenty of other sources on why this vaccine seems very sketchy).

collyw 6y ago
The western vaccines appear to be getting emergency approval as well, no? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-emergency-use-authorization-fda/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-pfizer-emergency-...
- klmr 6y ago
  Emergency approval ≠ rubber-stamping. The “Western” vaccines are still going through proper (if accelerated) clinical trials. The Russian vaccine’s supposed efficacy and safety was announced before starting the phase III trials. That’s what’s rightly being mocked.
  - collyw 6y ago
    The western one is being rushed through a lot quicker than usual. We can't possibly know about long term effects.
    - klmr 6y ago
      We can’t know about long-term effects from the clinical trials. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t know anything about possible long-term effects — in fact, that’s categorically false. We know quite a lot about the underlying biology of these vaccines, and we have extensive data from animal testing. We can’t exclude all long-term effects but we know that they’re rather unlikely — mostly because there’s no plausible biological mechanism to cause them. In particular, based on our biological knowledge, we can categorically exclude claims from conspiracy theorists about the RNA likely being integrated into our genome: this just isn’t how any of this works, it’s fiction.
      - collyw 6y ago
        So what exactly do we know? From wikipedia: "mRNA vaccines are new, and before 2020, no mRNA technology platform had ever been authorized for human use, and thus there is the risk of unknown effects, both short and longer-term." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine The UK government is producing AI software to "to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs)" https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0 https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN... But yes, label people questioning the rushed out vaccine as "conspiracy theorists".
        klmr 6y ago
        > So what exactly do we know? A lot more than you’ll find easily digestible in a single Wikipedia article. > The UK government is producing AI software to "to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs)" The volume is expected to be high not because many actual, serious averse reactions are expected but because the vaccines are expected to be given to many people at once, and every potential averse reaction will be recorded. Most records in such ADR databases are causally unrelated to the vaccine, and merely occur coincidentally; and the vast (>99%) majority of the rest are occasional mild reactions. > But yes, label people questioning the rushed out vaccine as "conspiracy theorists". I’m not. I’m labelling specifically those people as conspiracy theorists who make up bullshit that isn’t based on actual biology but rather on complete fiction. In other words, who spew baseless lies. I’m all for robustly criticising these vaccines. But it has to happen scientifically, and by experts.

tgb 6y ago

It's being mocked for being insufficiently well tested. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/russia-s-claim-successful-covid-19-vaccine-doesn-t-pass-smell-test-critics-say https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/russia-s-claim-succe...

antsoul 6y ago

Also before Pfizer and Moderna results, we just got a scary mutation on the spike protein in Minks farms in Denmark. This could easily make any vaccine based on the spike protein worthless, which may explain why suddenly western companies starts selling their vaccines... And a personal comment : you should forget the idea that the Law will protect you from bad government/institutions decisions.

tonyarkles 6y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03218-z https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03218-z Tentative good news at least that the mutations hopefully won’t derail things!

thrawn0r 6y ago

There was no data on the Russian Sputnik vaccine before, but it get inject folks anyways. They got rightly criticised for this reckless and unscientific behaviour.

FranzFerdiNaN 6y ago

Russia's claims are incredibly suspect. See https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/the-russian-vaccine https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/11/th... for an explanation why.

SamBam 6y ago

You seem to be implying that it was "mocked" because the protection rate was "only" 92%. That was never the reason that it was mocked, and I'm curious where you got that impression.

unnouinceput 6y ago
No, I did not implied that. It was ridiculed because it got approved before proper trials, or at least that's what Western media that I am reading daily told me. I don't speak Russian so I can't read their media to see what's happening there. And now the same Western media that is praising Pfizer / Moderna is telling me Russian one is on par. So what happened? is the Russian one just as good, in which case past months were used to let people die or is not?!!
- SamBam 6y ago
  What media were you reading that implied the Russian one was on par? Most reporting that I've read has always included the caveat that the drug never completed serious clinical trials.

bhickey 6y ago

The Russian vaccine uses an adenovirus vector. It's unlikely to work in people who were previously infected with adenovirus.

rsynnott 6y ago

The Russian vaccine isn't _really_ available; it's effectively in a phase 3 trial.