4 ms·

I consider myself right-wing, and I do think this is an idea whose time has come, along with UBI. Primarily because the capitalist model works well when there'

by llimos 6y ago

I consider myself right-wing, and I do think this is an idea whose time has come, along with UBI. Primarily because the capitalist model works well when there's an assumption of people generally playing fair (call it iterated prisoners dilemma if you like) and I don't think this is the case any more. People and companies alike are now out to exploit as much as they can and get out, and capitalism does not handle that well, as we are seeing. I'm also very strongly persuaded by David Graeber's classic on bullshit jobs[1]. See also "UBI is Capitalism 2.0"[2]. I think people who see it this way are a growing group. [1] https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs [2] https://timjrobinson.com/universal-basic-income-is-capitalism-2-0/ https://timjrobinson.com/universal-basic-income-is-capitalis...

mariusor 6y ago
> I consider myself right-wing Please forgive me if what I'm about to say will sound patronizing, but I'm wondering if this is really what you mean to say. On the anglophone Internet it has a pretty well established meaning, which is not something that people are usually willing to admit in public. If you mean it in a strictly economical left-right scale, you probably can find a better way to express that.
- llimos 6y ago
  Thanks for the advice. I'm not American so maybe these things have different meanings there. You can read it as 'conservative' if that is better. I was contrasting to the article, which started out quoting a 'group of leftwing politicians and union officials from across Europe.' As far as I know, in the UK at least people don't have a problem identifying as right-wing (except on Twitter, obvs)
  - matt-attack 6y ago
    As an American I didn’t find it shocking or odd. I took it to just mean “conservative”.
  - mariusor 6y ago
    Apparently you're fine and I'm just biased against the term, don't mind me. Sorry to have raised the issue. :)
- necheffa 6y ago
  What are you going on about? I know plenty of people who are just a little too proud to identify themselves as "right wing". And as a colonialism it isn't inherently a negative thing. As a native "anglophone", I believe you are the one who needs to adjust definitions and expectations.
  - mariusor 6y ago
    Fair enough, apologies if the Internet has painted the wrong picture of the term for me.
  - vagrantJin 6y ago
    > And as a colonialism it isn't inherently a negative thing. I must have misread.
    - necheffa 6y ago
      Nope. I fat fingered "colloquialism" and then fat fingered the spell check suggests on my mobile keyboard.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- floor2 6y ago
  Wow, this is the craziest thing I've read in a while. I've seen people on the right accuse the left of shutting down debate by calling things 'offensive', but I didn't think it'd reached such an extreme as to just lump half the political spectrum into "not willing to admit in public". I'm curious what you imagine the "pretty well established meaning" is. When I read it, I assumed they meant things like - prefer more individual freedom and less central control, see the risks of government corruption and abuse of power as equally concerning to the problems that government is supposed to be solving, etc. The things that then manifest as policies which are pro-freedom of speech, pro-small business, pro-free association, pro-private property rights etc.
  - mariusor 6y ago
    I thought I made my point in a reasonably civilized manner. Even if it's wrong, I don't think your attitude is constructive to me getting a better understanding. Maybe I'm muddling my semantics but right "wing" tells me that one's leaning to the right pretty far away from the center, so in my mind it does not comprise "half of the political spectrum". US politics are not my politics and I apologize if I offended you and some of the other commenters that seem aggravated by my interpretation of the term.
    - floor2 6y ago
      It seems like you have just a genuine misunderstanding due to language and culture. American discourse uses "right wing" and "left wing" frequently and broadly, someone saying they're "right wing" does not mean they are "far right" or extreme or anything like that. Particularly in the context of the original poster, it's a common idiom to state something like "I'm generally left-wing, but I think <insert opposing view on some issue>" as a very clearly centrist person.
0xfaded 6y ago
I consider myself very left, but am also strongly persuaded by David Graeber's bullshit jobs. I think you will also enjoy "Rentier Capitalism: Who Owns the Economy, and Who Pays for It?". It helped me understand some of the "unfairness" I perceived but could not quantity in words. The premise is that western economies are now set up for those who can extract rents. The eye opener is just how many things can be considered rent seeking, from winning contracts to exploiting mineral leases.

by llimos 6y ago

mariusor 6y ago

> I consider myself right-wing Please forgive me if what I'm about to say will sound patronizing, but I'm wondering if this is really what you mean to say. On the anglophone Internet it has a pretty well established meaning, which is not something that people are usually willing to admit in public. If you mean it in a strictly economical left-right scale, you probably can find a better way to express that.

llimos 6y ago
Thanks for the advice. I'm not American so maybe these things have different meanings there. You can read it as 'conservative' if that is better. I was contrasting to the article, which started out quoting a 'group of leftwing politicians and union officials from across Europe.' As far as I know, in the UK at least people don't have a problem identifying as right-wing (except on Twitter, obvs)
- matt-attack 6y ago
  As an American I didn’t find it shocking or odd. I took it to just mean “conservative”.
- mariusor 6y ago
  Apparently you're fine and I'm just biased against the term, don't mind me. Sorry to have raised the issue. :)
necheffa 6y ago
What are you going on about? I know plenty of people who are just a little too proud to identify themselves as "right wing". And as a colonialism it isn't inherently a negative thing. As a native "anglophone", I believe you are the one who needs to adjust definitions and expectations.
- mariusor 6y ago
  Fair enough, apologies if the Internet has painted the wrong picture of the term for me.
- vagrantJin 6y ago
  > And as a colonialism it isn't inherently a negative thing. I must have misread.
  - necheffa 6y ago
    Nope. I fat fingered "colloquialism" and then fat fingered the spell check suggests on my mobile keyboard.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
floor2 6y ago
Wow, this is the craziest thing I've read in a while. I've seen people on the right accuse the left of shutting down debate by calling things 'offensive', but I didn't think it'd reached such an extreme as to just lump half the political spectrum into "not willing to admit in public". I'm curious what you imagine the "pretty well established meaning" is. When I read it, I assumed they meant things like - prefer more individual freedom and less central control, see the risks of government corruption and abuse of power as equally concerning to the problems that government is supposed to be solving, etc. The things that then manifest as policies which are pro-freedom of speech, pro-small business, pro-free association, pro-private property rights etc.
- mariusor 6y ago
  I thought I made my point in a reasonably civilized manner. Even if it's wrong, I don't think your attitude is constructive to me getting a better understanding. Maybe I'm muddling my semantics but right "wing" tells me that one's leaning to the right pretty far away from the center, so in my mind it does not comprise "half of the political spectrum". US politics are not my politics and I apologize if I offended you and some of the other commenters that seem aggravated by my interpretation of the term.
  - floor2 6y ago
    It seems like you have just a genuine misunderstanding due to language and culture. American discourse uses "right wing" and "left wing" frequently and broadly, someone saying they're "right wing" does not mean they are "far right" or extreme or anything like that. Particularly in the context of the original poster, it's a common idiom to state something like "I'm generally left-wing, but I think <insert opposing view on some issue>" as a very clearly centrist person.

0xfaded 6y ago

I consider myself very left, but am also strongly persuaded by David Graeber's bullshit jobs. I think you will also enjoy "Rentier Capitalism: Who Owns the Economy, and Who Pays for It?". It helped me understand some of the "unfairness" I perceived but could not quantity in words. The premise is that western economies are now set up for those who can extract rents. The eye opener is just how many things can be considered rent seeking, from winning contracts to exploiting mineral leases.