7 ms·

Most fruit are nowhere near as healthy as most people expect they are. They have been selectively bred over many hundreds of years to be far larger, sweeter and

Most fruit are nowhere near as healthy as most people expect they are. They have been selectively bred over many hundreds of years to be far larger, sweeter and more devoid of micronutrients than they were hundreds of years ago. The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, gout and other metabolic or inflammatory diseases. Replacing some fruit with vegetables instead, and choosing less sweet fruit like various berries or melons may be a good idea for most people.

kleiba 6y ago
Most national dietary guidelines encourage eating fruits and vegetables, with an emphasis on the vegetables. The sugar amount in fruit has a direct impact on the overall calories you consume but since fruit are also high in fibre, the contained sugar is not comparable to, say, a chocolate bar.
- HighlandSpring 6y ago
  Most national dietary guidelines are backed by weak epidemiology and are rarely corroborated by RCTs. See: the food pyramid
  - nerdponx 6y ago
    And are instead heavily guided by ag industry lobbyists.
- nordsieck 6y ago
  > The sugar amount in fruit has a direct impact on the overall calories you consume but since fruit are also high in fibre, the contained sugar is not comparable to, say, a chocolate bar. I think a more precise way to say this is: Due to the water and fiber in fruit, they tend to be more satiating than eating something like a chocolate bar on a calorie normalized basis.
  - kleiba 6y ago
    True, but what I was actually trying to get at was that sugar is also metabolized differently in the presence of fibre.
  - darkerside 6y ago
    My understanding is that the fiber literally prevents absorption of fructose, so parent's comment is accurate
    - scythe 6y ago
      Fructose is almost always absorbed; fructose malabsorption causes SIBO. Fiber reduces the glycemic index and makes fruit more satiating. Glucose aids the absorption of fructose preventing SIBO. But in the case of fruit w.r.t. gout, the missing variable here is that while fructose increases the production of uric acid, potassium promotes the excretion of uric acid [1], and fruits are generally an excellent source of potassium while soft drinks contain little to none. The net effect of fruit on gout risk seems to be inconclusive [2] but it's clear that fruits are much less concerning than foods with added fructose. Since a significant fraction of Westerners do not consume enough potassium [3], and potassium is key to preventing hypertension and stroke [4,5], it is bad advice to suggest reducing fruit consumption for most people, unless you're already eating like Steve Jobs. 1: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0085253815337844 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S008525381... 2: https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article-abstract/58/7/1133/5475481 https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article-abstract/58/7/... 3: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0270929506001434 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02709... 4: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%252Fs11906-011-0197-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%252Fs11906-011-019... 5: https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-933305 https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/1...
- tubularhells 6y ago
  You are comparing the sugars in raw food to something heavily processed. That's not a good comparison.
  - Someone 6y ago
    It is in the context of dieting advice “instead of a chocolate bar, eat an apple” (still about 20 grams of sugar/100 kcal, but about half that of the chocolate bar)
    - watwut 6y ago
      The other difference is that while chocolate bar makes you more active if you was low on sugar, you are still quite empty, hungry and looking for more to eat shortly after you ate that. If you eat apples, you hit limit soon. Apples also do not work all that much if you actually need quick energy when doing something straining. It does not have that "immediately feel better" effect (which motivates you eat more and more).
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Sugar is sugar. HFCS is a bit worse, but in the broader context of dietary intake it will make no difference.
    - sqldba 6y ago
      That’s a very simplistic way of looking at things which isn’t supported by medical science. Specifically glucose, fructose, sucrose, are worth treating differently for the purposes of diet management.
      - mcny 6y ago
        >> Sugar is sugar. >> That’s a very simplistic way of looking at things which isn’t supported by medical science. I agree with you on this one but from what I've heard, it is likely that fruit juices and smoothies are not fruits either. If that is correct, the message can get very muddied. >> Specifically glucose, fructose, sucrose, are worth treating differently for the purposes of diet management. Now we need to not only treat different sugars differently, we also need to treat the delivery methods differently as well. At some point, the message just becomes too complicated.
knuthsat 6y ago
Diet containing a lot of fruit can be healthy . Sugar consumed through fruit has a massively different effect compared to consuming only that sugar. Fiber with sugar is not the same as pure sugar. I’m not sure there are any studies demonstrating what you claim.
- jiofih 6y ago
  The fiber will impact the absorption rate and insulin spike, but in the end you’ll have consumed the same amount of sugar. For calorie-counting purposes, or say, avoiding gout due to fructose intake, there will be no difference.
  - darkerside 6y ago
    Why wouldn't the absorption rate have an impact? Seems like it could slow down absorption enough for your kidneys to filter out byproducts that can lead to gout. Interested to learn if you know something different.
    - Emphere 6y ago
      No, fiber does not have that big of an impact on absorption. That's why most fruits are a big no on keto diets
      - darkerside 6y ago
        https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/fiber/art-20043983#:~:text=Studies%20also%20have%20shown%20that,help%20improve%20blood%20sugar%20levels https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h.... > Studies also have shown that high-fiber foods may have other heart-health benefits, such as reducing blood pressure and inflammation. Helps control blood sugar levels. In people with diabetes, fiber — particularly soluble fiber — can slow the absorption of sugar and help improve blood sugar levels. Seems like it impacts time to absorb
    - Fumtumi 6y ago
watwut 6y ago
I have yet to meet someone who is obese and his calorie intake is primary from fruits. Edit: I just did napkin calculation. Sedentary 170cm high male weighting 66kg would need to eat 20 apples a day to keep his weight. Or 3600 grams per day. The shocking high sugar content still means nearly uneatable quantity of apples just to get enough calories for rather small office worker who does no sport.
- jiofih 6y ago
  That, or 400g+ of chocolate. No conclusion to be taken here.
  - watwut 6y ago
    It is easy to eat 400g of chocolate per day. Not at one sitting, but if you have whole day for it, you can do it without any issue. Also, it would be 350g of dark chocolate for my hypothetical guy.
    - webmaven 6y ago
      > It is easy to eat 400g of chocolate per day. Not at one sitting, Challenge Accepted.
- bregma 6y ago
  That's only 2 apple pies, assuming you don't eat any of the crusts. I don't think that's uneatable other than the fact the crust is the best part.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I would assume we talk about fresh apples. If you process it in such a heavy way it is something completely different. You can also eat a lot more dried apples then fresh ones. Or you can drink a lot more apple juice then eat apples.
- Fumtumi 6y ago
  I don't think 20 apples is that much. And we are talking about people who are obese, they are consumgint oo many calories per day, every day. Now lets take a real example: obese people tend to drink juices and replacing soda with juice because they assumed juices are healthy. I can easily drink 2 liters of water or 2 liters of juice/soda every day. 470 calories for 1 liter -> 900 calories additional. easy
dragonelite 6y ago
Fruit is pretty much sugary water in fruit form these days.
goatinaboat 6y ago
The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, gout and other metabolic or inflammatory diseases. If you want some idea of how bad it is: monkeys get diabetes from bananas now https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/monkeys-banned-eating-bananas-devon-zoo-9058856.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/monkeys-bann...
namdnay 6y ago
Melons are basically sugar water: 84% water, 14% carbs, 1% protein, 1% fibre
hombre_fatal 6y ago
Obese people avoiding fruit is one of the biggest eye roll on offer. I had a fat roommate who measured out the raw almonds he ate because they were calorie dense the same day he’d eat two whole pizzas for dinner. Meanwhile, almonds and bananas aren’t the things making people fat. Looking at my own fat friends, some tasty fruit is the only fiber they even get. And vegetables aren’t even on the menu of most fat people I’ve lived with. Don’t discourage the only healthy habits people do have. Look at the the actual diet of an obese / fatty liver / type2 person and you’ll see how silly this advice is. It ain’t the fruit.
- Fumtumi 6y ago
  To add to your very generic statement: Fruit juice contains a lot of sugar; Oranges contain a lot of sugar; Make sure you check how much calories you take in regardless of the food. A good understanding of food healthiness is to understand what you are eating.
  - rusk 6y ago
    The difference between fruit juice and actual fruit is massive. Volume for starters it’s far easier to overconsume juice than whole fruits. Then there’s the matter of the rough fibrous matter being strained out and the glycaemic index ... (EDIT not to mention the various adulterations for shelf life and added sugar and stuff) It’s far harder to go wrong with whole fruits.
    - Fumtumi 6y ago
      So my statement, you are commenting on, is wrong? "Make sure you check how much calories you take in regardless of the food."
      - rusk 6y ago
        I was agreeing with you, and reinforcing your point. It's such a shame our reflex is that if somebody responds to something they must be disagreeing.
wyldfire 6y ago
> The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, gout and other metabolic or inflammatory diseases. While vegetables are often superior to fruit for the reasons you indicate, if your diet contains neither then you could still consider fruit a 'step down' from the ever-popular refined carb snacks. Most fruit contains enough fiber to help you feel more satiated than a refined carb snack would.

kleiba 6y ago

Most national dietary guidelines encourage eating fruits and vegetables, with an emphasis on the vegetables. The sugar amount in fruit has a direct impact on the overall calories you consume but since fruit are also high in fibre, the contained sugar is not comparable to, say, a chocolate bar.

HighlandSpring 6y ago
Most national dietary guidelines are backed by weak epidemiology and are rarely corroborated by RCTs. See: the food pyramid
- nerdponx 6y ago
  And are instead heavily guided by ag industry lobbyists.
nordsieck 6y ago
> The sugar amount in fruit has a direct impact on the overall calories you consume but since fruit are also high in fibre, the contained sugar is not comparable to, say, a chocolate bar. I think a more precise way to say this is: Due to the water and fiber in fruit, they tend to be more satiating than eating something like a chocolate bar on a calorie normalized basis.
- kleiba 6y ago
  True, but what I was actually trying to get at was that sugar is also metabolized differently in the presence of fibre.
- darkerside 6y ago
  My understanding is that the fiber literally prevents absorption of fructose, so parent's comment is accurate
  - scythe 6y ago
    Fructose is almost always absorbed; fructose malabsorption causes SIBO. Fiber reduces the glycemic index and makes fruit more satiating. Glucose aids the absorption of fructose preventing SIBO. But in the case of fruit w.r.t. gout, the missing variable here is that while fructose increases the production of uric acid, potassium promotes the excretion of uric acid [1], and fruits are generally an excellent source of potassium while soft drinks contain little to none. The net effect of fruit on gout risk seems to be inconclusive [2] but it's clear that fruits are much less concerning than foods with added fructose. Since a significant fraction of Westerners do not consume enough potassium [3], and potassium is key to preventing hypertension and stroke [4,5], it is bad advice to suggest reducing fruit consumption for most people, unless you're already eating like Steve Jobs. 1: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0085253815337844 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S008525381... 2: https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article-abstract/58/7/1133/5475481 https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article-abstract/58/7/... 3: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0270929506001434 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02709... 4: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%252Fs11906-011-0197-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%252Fs11906-011-019... 5: https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2006-933305 https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/1...
tubularhells 6y ago
You are comparing the sugars in raw food to something heavily processed. That's not a good comparison.
- Someone 6y ago
  It is in the context of dieting advice “instead of a chocolate bar, eat an apple” (still about 20 grams of sugar/100 kcal, but about half that of the chocolate bar)
  - watwut 6y ago
    The other difference is that while chocolate bar makes you more active if you was low on sugar, you are still quite empty, hungry and looking for more to eat shortly after you ate that. If you eat apples, you hit limit soon. Apples also do not work all that much if you actually need quick energy when doing something straining. It does not have that "immediately feel better" effect (which motivates you eat more and more).
- jiofih 6y ago
  Sugar is sugar. HFCS is a bit worse, but in the broader context of dietary intake it will make no difference.
  - sqldba 6y ago
    That’s a very simplistic way of looking at things which isn’t supported by medical science. Specifically glucose, fructose, sucrose, are worth treating differently for the purposes of diet management.
    - mcny 6y ago
      >> Sugar is sugar. >> That’s a very simplistic way of looking at things which isn’t supported by medical science. I agree with you on this one but from what I've heard, it is likely that fruit juices and smoothies are not fruits either. If that is correct, the message can get very muddied. >> Specifically glucose, fructose, sucrose, are worth treating differently for the purposes of diet management. Now we need to not only treat different sugars differently, we also need to treat the delivery methods differently as well. At some point, the message just becomes too complicated.

knuthsat 6y ago

Diet containing a lot of fruit can be healthy . Sugar consumed through fruit has a massively different effect compared to consuming only that sugar. Fiber with sugar is not the same as pure sugar. I’m not sure there are any studies demonstrating what you claim.

jiofih 6y ago
The fiber will impact the absorption rate and insulin spike, but in the end you’ll have consumed the same amount of sugar. For calorie-counting purposes, or say, avoiding gout due to fructose intake, there will be no difference.
- darkerside 6y ago
  Why wouldn't the absorption rate have an impact? Seems like it could slow down absorption enough for your kidneys to filter out byproducts that can lead to gout. Interested to learn if you know something different.
  - Emphere 6y ago
    No, fiber does not have that big of an impact on absorption. That's why most fruits are a big no on keto diets
    - darkerside 6y ago
      https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/fiber/art-20043983#:~:text=Studies%20also%20have%20shown%20that,help%20improve%20blood%20sugar%20levels https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h.... > Studies also have shown that high-fiber foods may have other heart-health benefits, such as reducing blood pressure and inflammation. Helps control blood sugar levels. In people with diabetes, fiber — particularly soluble fiber — can slow the absorption of sugar and help improve blood sugar levels. Seems like it impacts time to absorb
  - Fumtumi 6y ago

watwut 6y ago

I have yet to meet someone who is obese and his calorie intake is primary from fruits. Edit: I just did napkin calculation. Sedentary 170cm high male weighting 66kg would need to eat 20 apples a day to keep his weight. Or 3600 grams per day. The shocking high sugar content still means nearly uneatable quantity of apples just to get enough calories for rather small office worker who does no sport.

jiofih 6y ago
That, or 400g+ of chocolate. No conclusion to be taken here.
- watwut 6y ago
  It is easy to eat 400g of chocolate per day. Not at one sitting, but if you have whole day for it, you can do it without any issue. Also, it would be 350g of dark chocolate for my hypothetical guy.
  - webmaven 6y ago
    > It is easy to eat 400g of chocolate per day. Not at one sitting, Challenge Accepted.
bregma 6y ago
That's only 2 apple pies, assuming you don't eat any of the crusts. I don't think that's uneatable other than the fact the crust is the best part.
- watwut 6y ago
  I would assume we talk about fresh apples. If you process it in such a heavy way it is something completely different. You can also eat a lot more dried apples then fresh ones. Or you can drink a lot more apple juice then eat apples.
Fumtumi 6y ago
I don't think 20 apples is that much. And we are talking about people who are obese, they are consumgint oo many calories per day, every day. Now lets take a real example: obese people tend to drink juices and replacing soda with juice because they assumed juices are healthy. I can easily drink 2 liters of water or 2 liters of juice/soda every day. 470 calories for 1 liter -> 900 calories additional. easy

dragonelite 6y ago

Fruit is pretty much sugary water in fruit form these days.

goatinaboat 6y ago

The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, gout and other metabolic or inflammatory diseases. If you want some idea of how bad it is: monkeys get diabetes from bananas now https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/monkeys-banned-eating-bananas-devon-zoo-9058856.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/monkeys-bann...

namdnay 6y ago

Melons are basically sugar water: 84% water, 14% carbs, 1% protein, 1% fibre

hombre_fatal 6y ago

Obese people avoiding fruit is one of the biggest eye roll on offer. I had a fat roommate who measured out the raw almonds he ate because they were calorie dense the same day he’d eat two whole pizzas for dinner. Meanwhile, almonds and bananas aren’t the things making people fat. Looking at my own fat friends, some tasty fruit is the only fiber they even get. And vegetables aren’t even on the menu of most fat people I’ve lived with. Don’t discourage the only healthy habits people do have. Look at the the actual diet of an obese / fatty liver / type2 person and you’ll see how silly this advice is. It ain’t the fruit.

Fumtumi 6y ago
To add to your very generic statement: Fruit juice contains a lot of sugar; Oranges contain a lot of sugar; Make sure you check how much calories you take in regardless of the food. A good understanding of food healthiness is to understand what you are eating.
- rusk 6y ago
  The difference between fruit juice and actual fruit is massive. Volume for starters it’s far easier to overconsume juice than whole fruits. Then there’s the matter of the rough fibrous matter being strained out and the glycaemic index ... (EDIT not to mention the various adulterations for shelf life and added sugar and stuff) It’s far harder to go wrong with whole fruits.
  - Fumtumi 6y ago
    So my statement, you are commenting on, is wrong? "Make sure you check how much calories you take in regardless of the food."
    - rusk 6y ago
      I was agreeing with you, and reinforcing your point. It's such a shame our reflex is that if somebody responds to something they must be disagreeing.

wyldfire 6y ago

> The amount of sugar (especially fructose) in fruits like apples, oranges and bananas is shockingly high, and can cause or exacerbate conditions such as obesity, fatty liver, type 2 diabetes, gout and other metabolic or inflammatory diseases. While vegetables are often superior to fruit for the reasons you indicate, if your diet contains neither then you could still consider fruit a 'step down' from the ever-popular refined carb snacks. Most fruit contains enough fiber to help you feel more satiated than a refined carb snack would.