5 ms·

Highly, highly recommend "The Queen's Gambit" on Netflix. Like wow.

hackerNoose 6y ago
It's not very realistic when it comes to the chess, except the actual games. I also found it frustrating that they obviously were inspired by Bobby Fischer whose real life would have made a great story, but decided he wasn't hollywood friendly.
- jsnell 6y ago
  The Netflix series was an adaptation of a 35 year old novel of the same name.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  There are parallels to Fischer but if you want that movie "Pawn Sacrifice" is a decent movie. As for realism when it comes to chess, as a (former - covid bleh) competitive league player they absolutely nailed the "feel" of the Chess world for me, better than anything else I've seen - yes they compressed the games and showed players moving far too quickly but that was a necessary compromise - hard to show a 7 hour game in real time as a TV show. The camaraderie and eccentricities of the Chess world where displayed really well.
- C4stor 6y ago
  To be fair, Bobby Fischer life, while not totally uneventful wouldn't really be dramatic enough for a serie. At least, not without focusing on the geopolitical aspect of when he played spassky, which the serie apparently didn't go with. Also, using a woman character was a good idea in my opinion, since chess is such a man world.
- georgeoliver 6y ago
  Not very realistic? I thought the depiction of tournament play was spot on, with the obvious exception of a few 'dramatic moments'. Have you played OTB tournaments?
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Have you seen the top 100 chessplayer list? Now, 10 years ago?, 50 years ago? Have you see the women top 100 list? The few American women there are Asian-Americans or FSU. Only in Hollywood a cute WASPY girl is the GOAT of chess, and yes I know this is based on a 1980s novel.That does not make it realistic. It's like making a movie where the best 100m sprinter in the world is a Guatemalan woman. Nice story, 0 credibility.
    - georgeoliver 6y ago
      I understand your point, I guess I'm not one to feel that 'realistic' in the sense you described is a very important metric when critiquing media. For example, would anyone say that the musical Hamilton is 'realistic'? Probably not, but that hasn't decreased its massive popularity. As a tournament player myself (of course, a rather shoddy amateur) I felt the series got the details of tournament play right. The fact that the prodigy was a teenage girl was besides the point.
      - cambalache 6y ago
        That's fair. Do you know whose story would have been awesome, the Polgar sister's, specially Judit. Their story demonstrates 2 things. Within an specific limited discipline, "genius" can be manufactured if specialized long training and time is invested since childhood. Individual variability still matters a lot. Out of all the 3 sisters, Judit was the only who went to become a truly world-class player.
        thom 6y ago
        I've always found the Polgar story a bit weird, despite the way their father obviously characterised it. Was their chess education really that different from any other resulting chess pro?
        cambalache 6y ago
        Well,his method is not that different of what I have seen other parents have done with their talented kids. Tiger Woods, Ichiro Suzuki, Son Heung-min, Andre Agassi, the Williams sisters, among others, were coached relentlessly since they were almost babies. You can discuss how healthy it is, but the results are there. Judit is by a ridiculous margin the strongest female player in the history.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  "I would have liked to watch a different movie" is an understandable reaction, but not a valid criticism of the movie you watched.
- dreamcompiler 6y ago
  How is it unrealistic? I've read several articles like [0] that say the chess is quite realistic. [0] https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/queens-gambit-a-real-life-chess-champion-on-netflixs-new-hit https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/queens-gambit-a...
- freeflight 6y ago
  The show is actually based on a book by the same name published in 1983 [0], never read it myself. The chess moves in it are apparently taken from Fischer and others, but it doesn't credit Fischer in any other way. Which is kind of weird considering the show did even the comparing the protagonist to Paul Morphy thing that also applied to Fischer. The book also tackles themes like drug addiction and feminism, but I found the show's take on these mostly pointless and superficial. Her drug addiction is never depicted as a struggle, she performs well drugged as well as sober, more of a comedic air to it than serious affliction. It's also slightly historically revisionist when claiming there were no female chess clubs in the US back then, when there actually were whole female national championships since the late 1930s. The show also claimed how in the USSR women would never play against men, completely ignoring the history of Nina Alexandrovna Bluket [1], who's life would probably have made for a way more interesting and authentic story than a gender-swapped Bobby Fischer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Gambit_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Gambit_(novel) [1] https://www.chess.com/blog/Spektrowski/pioneers-of-soviet-women-s-chess https://www.chess.com/blog/Spektrowski/pioneers-of-soviet-wo...
tikej 6y ago
It is a cool series but nowhere near real description of chess. Of course it’s ok, but it’s worth to remember, that in order to get to the international level you need excellent coaches and years of brutal many hour practice. Talent is somewhat important but nowhere as important as training. To have more objective outlook at “chess prodigy” story it’s interesting to look story of Joshua Waitzkin. He is a great and talented chess player but not at the level of grandmasters. He explained that he didn’t really wanted to “sacrifice” other things in his life to become a grandmaster.
- francisofascii 6y ago
  For those who might be unaware, the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" is about Josh Waitzkin.
- nebulous1 6y ago
  > Talent is somewhat important but nowhere as important as training. Generally agreed on your post but I don't think I agree with this. You aren't making it to GM without an extreme amount of talent. Training is likely to be required too, but I'd say it's much more likely that an extremely talented but untrained person could make GM vs an not-so-talented person with rigorous training. Basically I'm saying that the vast majority of people would never be able to become a GM regardless of training.
- newen 6y ago
  It's a good argument but also consider the alternative that Waitzkin might not have enough talent and he is saying that to protect his ego.
- drexlspivey 6y ago
  Mikhail Botvinik who was the world champion between 1948-1963 (with two brief 1-year disruptions) also had a career as an electrical engineer during his peak chess years
- akoshodi 6y ago
  The NatGeo documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E , "My brilliant Brain" featuring Susan Polgar touches on some points you have made. Most people will not be able to pay the necessary price to be an elite player. I found some similarities between Susan Polgar and the fictional character in Queen's Gambit.
developer2 6y ago
Just watched it over the past week. I enjoyed it immensely. I don't care whether its depiction of chess is realistic. The lead actress is superb in her role. Its depiction of addiction and depression was spot-on with my experience; many of the scenes gave me chills, particularly when the adoptive mother is involved (whether directly or indirectly). Highly recommended: "The Queen's Gambit", 7-episode miniseries on Netflix.
- akoshodi 6y ago
  You will also find the NatGeo documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E , "My brilliant Brain" featuring Susan Polgar interesting.

It's not very realistic when it comes to the chess, except the actual games. I also found it frustrating that they obviously were inspired by Bobby Fischer whose real life would have made a great story, but decided he wasn't hollywood friendly.

jsnell 6y ago
The Netflix series was an adaptation of a 35 year old novel of the same name.
noir_lord 6y ago
There are parallels to Fischer but if you want that movie "Pawn Sacrifice" is a decent movie. As for realism when it comes to chess, as a (former - covid bleh) competitive league player they absolutely nailed the "feel" of the Chess world for me, better than anything else I've seen - yes they compressed the games and showed players moving far too quickly but that was a necessary compromise - hard to show a 7 hour game in real time as a TV show. The camaraderie and eccentricities of the Chess world where displayed really well.
C4stor 6y ago
To be fair, Bobby Fischer life, while not totally uneventful wouldn't really be dramatic enough for a serie. At least, not without focusing on the geopolitical aspect of when he played spassky, which the serie apparently didn't go with. Also, using a woman character was a good idea in my opinion, since chess is such a man world.
georgeoliver 6y ago
Not very realistic? I thought the depiction of tournament play was spot on, with the obvious exception of a few 'dramatic moments'. Have you played OTB tournaments?
- cambalache 6y ago
  Have you seen the top 100 chessplayer list? Now, 10 years ago?, 50 years ago? Have you see the women top 100 list? The few American women there are Asian-Americans or FSU. Only in Hollywood a cute WASPY girl is the GOAT of chess, and yes I know this is based on a 1980s novel.That does not make it realistic. It's like making a movie where the best 100m sprinter in the world is a Guatemalan woman. Nice story, 0 credibility.
  - georgeoliver 6y ago
    I understand your point, I guess I'm not one to feel that 'realistic' in the sense you described is a very important metric when critiquing media. For example, would anyone say that the musical Hamilton is 'realistic'? Probably not, but that hasn't decreased its massive popularity. As a tournament player myself (of course, a rather shoddy amateur) I felt the series got the details of tournament play right. The fact that the prodigy was a teenage girl was besides the point.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      That's fair. Do you know whose story would have been awesome, the Polgar sister's, specially Judit. Their story demonstrates 2 things. Within an specific limited discipline, "genius" can be manufactured if specialized long training and time is invested since childhood. Individual variability still matters a lot. Out of all the 3 sisters, Judit was the only who went to become a truly world-class player.
      - thom 6y ago
        I've always found the Polgar story a bit weird, despite the way their father obviously characterised it. Was their chess education really that different from any other resulting chess pro?
        cambalache 6y ago
        Well,his method is not that different of what I have seen other parents have done with their talented kids. Tiger Woods, Ichiro Suzuki, Son Heung-min, Andre Agassi, the Williams sisters, among others, were coached relentlessly since they were almost babies. You can discuss how healthy it is, but the results are there. Judit is by a ridiculous margin the strongest female player in the history.
BurningFrog 6y ago
"I would have liked to watch a different movie" is an understandable reaction, but not a valid criticism of the movie you watched.
dreamcompiler 6y ago
How is it unrealistic? I've read several articles like [0] that say the chess is quite realistic. [0] https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/queens-gambit-a-real-life-chess-champion-on-netflixs-new-hit https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/queens-gambit-a...
freeflight 6y ago
The show is actually based on a book by the same name published in 1983 [0], never read it myself. The chess moves in it are apparently taken from Fischer and others, but it doesn't credit Fischer in any other way. Which is kind of weird considering the show did even the comparing the protagonist to Paul Morphy thing that also applied to Fischer. The book also tackles themes like drug addiction and feminism, but I found the show's take on these mostly pointless and superficial. Her drug addiction is never depicted as a struggle, she performs well drugged as well as sober, more of a comedic air to it than serious affliction. It's also slightly historically revisionist when claiming there were no female chess clubs in the US back then, when there actually were whole female national championships since the late 1930s. The show also claimed how in the USSR women would never play against men, completely ignoring the history of Nina Alexandrovna Bluket [1], who's life would probably have made for a way more interesting and authentic story than a gender-swapped Bobby Fischer. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Gambit_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen%27s_Gambit_(novel) [1] https://www.chess.com/blog/Spektrowski/pioneers-of-soviet-women-s-chess https://www.chess.com/blog/Spektrowski/pioneers-of-soviet-wo...

tikej 6y ago

It is a cool series but nowhere near real description of chess. Of course it’s ok, but it’s worth to remember, that in order to get to the international level you need excellent coaches and years of brutal many hour practice. Talent is somewhat important but nowhere as important as training. To have more objective outlook at “chess prodigy” story it’s interesting to look story of Joshua Waitzkin. He is a great and talented chess player but not at the level of grandmasters. He explained that he didn’t really wanted to “sacrifice” other things in his life to become a grandmaster.

francisofascii 6y ago
For those who might be unaware, the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" is about Josh Waitzkin.
nebulous1 6y ago
> Talent is somewhat important but nowhere as important as training. Generally agreed on your post but I don't think I agree with this. You aren't making it to GM without an extreme amount of talent. Training is likely to be required too, but I'd say it's much more likely that an extremely talented but untrained person could make GM vs an not-so-talented person with rigorous training. Basically I'm saying that the vast majority of people would never be able to become a GM regardless of training.
newen 6y ago
It's a good argument but also consider the alternative that Waitzkin might not have enough talent and he is saying that to protect his ego.
drexlspivey 6y ago
Mikhail Botvinik who was the world champion between 1948-1963 (with two brief 1-year disruptions) also had a career as an electrical engineer during his peak chess years
akoshodi 6y ago
The NatGeo documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E , "My brilliant Brain" featuring Susan Polgar touches on some points you have made. Most people will not be able to pay the necessary price to be an elite player. I found some similarities between Susan Polgar and the fictional character in Queen's Gambit.

developer2 6y ago

Just watched it over the past week. I enjoyed it immensely. I don't care whether its depiction of chess is realistic. The lead actress is superb in her role. Its depiction of addiction and depression was spot-on with my experience; many of the scenes gave me chills, particularly when the adoptive mother is involved (whether directly or indirectly). Highly recommended: "The Queen's Gambit", 7-episode miniseries on Netflix.

akoshodi 6y ago
You will also find the NatGeo documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzs33wvr9E , "My brilliant Brain" featuring Susan Polgar interesting.