5 ms·

Time has come for four-day week, say European politicians

83 points by grecy 6y ago

bzb6 6y ago
Don’t know about the rest but Íñigo Errejón is irrelevant and sort of a running joke here.
StavrosK 6y ago
As someone who's been working four-hour weeks for years, I cannot understate the change in life satisfaction. The workweek becomes much more pleasant and ends before you know it, and the weekend feels like it lasts forever. If you can afford it, I absolutely recommend at least trying it out.
- Udik 6y ago
  Nitpick: you mean overstate. Understating it would be very easy, just say it's terrible :)
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Oops, yep, you're right!
- jfengel 6y ago
  I assume you mean four-day weeks? Four-hour weeks would indeed make the weekends seem to last forever, but probably not realistic for anybody except self-help-book writers.
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Bah, yes, I do. I have no idea what I was thinking when writing that comment, it's just a trainwreck. TLDR: Shorter week very good.
    - jfengel 6y ago
      It does sound very good, and it feels "right": If I had three days off after 4 days of work, it would feel like paradise. Any less might make me feel aimless. I'm sure that they felt the same way when the 40 hour work weeks and weekends became standard. I wonder if, in a century, people will be antsy that they're losing more than half their life to work, and a three day work week seems perfect. I keep hoping that by then the robots will have completely changed all of that... but here I am working the same number of hours per week as my great grandfather.
      - Viliam1234 6y ago
        A friend of mine who tried different working schedules described it like this: With five-day workweek, the weekend is not long enough to recover. With four-day workweek, the weekend is enough to fully recover. With three-day workweek, you have enough energy during the weekend to start working on your own project. With two-day workweek, the work no longer makes you tired, it is as if you are on a perpetual vacation.
llimos 6y ago
I consider myself right-wing, and I do think this is an idea whose time has come, along with UBI. Primarily because the capitalist model works well when there's an assumption of people generally playing fair (call it iterated prisoners dilemma if you like) and I don't think this is the case any more. People and companies alike are now out to exploit as much as they can and get out, and capitalism does not handle that well, as we are seeing. I'm also very strongly persuaded by David Graeber's classic on bullshit jobs[1]. See also "UBI is Capitalism 2.0"[2]. I think people who see it this way are a growing group. [1] https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs [2] https://timjrobinson.com/universal-basic-income-is-capitalism-2-0/ https://timjrobinson.com/universal-basic-income-is-capitalis...
- mariusor 6y ago
  > I consider myself right-wing Please forgive me if what I'm about to say will sound patronizing, but I'm wondering if this is really what you mean to say. On the anglophone Internet it has a pretty well established meaning, which is not something that people are usually willing to admit in public. If you mean it in a strictly economical left-right scale, you probably can find a better way to express that.
  - llimos 6y ago
    Thanks for the advice. I'm not American so maybe these things have different meanings there. You can read it as 'conservative' if that is better. I was contrasting to the article, which started out quoting a 'group of leftwing politicians and union officials from across Europe.' As far as I know, in the UK at least people don't have a problem identifying as right-wing (except on Twitter, obvs)
    - matt-attack 6y ago
      As an American I didn’t find it shocking or odd. I took it to just mean “conservative”.
    - mariusor 6y ago
herbst 6y ago
Its kinda normal in Switzerland to work 4 day weeks or less. Working 32 hours instead of 40 (which was necessary in my initial education) really felt like a life changer. I could get so much done on that additional weekday and was able to fully enjoy my weekend
- esel2k 6y ago
  I disagree and I live in Switzerland and we tend to be a 40h week hard working country (not long ago 42,5h was the norm). Compare that to our neighbors and we are way about the average. Together with Iceland we have the most hours, so I think you might be wrong. Maybe education is different... Source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/greeks-work-longest-hours-in-europe/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/greeks-work-longest-h...
  - herbst 6y ago
    This for sure is true, but that does not change the fact that we have a system for “part time work“ that is far easier than for example in germany or austria. In my social circle the majority works 80%. Something that is normal and possible here and unheard of in austria
sradman 6y ago
> Shah was one of the pioneers of the perk in the UK. He started giving staff Wednesdays off This applies to salaried employees and I think agreeing on which specific day to take off is non-trivial. The standardized weekend is about coordination across society. The same principle applies to public holidays. Selecting Monday, Wednesday, or Friday for an additional day off has to apply across a region to benefit from the coordination effects. Even if you agree with a regional four-day work week I don’t think you will reach consensus on which day to take off.
- noitpmeder 6y ago
  Why have it be a certain day for everyone? I can see an eventuality where employees are given the freedom to choose which 4 days, which may even differ week-to-week.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

83 points by grecy 6y ago

bzb6 6y ago

Don’t know about the rest but Íñigo Errejón is irrelevant and sort of a running joke here.

As someone who's been working four-hour weeks for years, I cannot understate the change in life satisfaction. The workweek becomes much more pleasant and ends before you know it, and the weekend feels like it lasts forever. If you can afford it, I absolutely recommend at least trying it out.

Udik 6y ago
Nitpick: you mean overstate. Understating it would be very easy, just say it's terrible :)
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Oops, yep, you're right!
jfengel 6y ago
I assume you mean four-day weeks? Four-hour weeks would indeed make the weekends seem to last forever, but probably not realistic for anybody except self-help-book writers.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Bah, yes, I do. I have no idea what I was thinking when writing that comment, it's just a trainwreck. TLDR: Shorter week very good.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    It does sound very good, and it feels "right": If I had three days off after 4 days of work, it would feel like paradise. Any less might make me feel aimless. I'm sure that they felt the same way when the 40 hour work weeks and weekends became standard. I wonder if, in a century, people will be antsy that they're losing more than half their life to work, and a three day work week seems perfect. I keep hoping that by then the robots will have completely changed all of that... but here I am working the same number of hours per week as my great grandfather.
    - Viliam1234 6y ago
      A friend of mine who tried different working schedules described it like this: With five-day workweek, the weekend is not long enough to recover. With four-day workweek, the weekend is enough to fully recover. With three-day workweek, you have enough energy during the weekend to start working on your own project. With two-day workweek, the work no longer makes you tired, it is as if you are on a perpetual vacation.

llimos 6y ago

I consider myself right-wing, and I do think this is an idea whose time has come, along with UBI. Primarily because the capitalist model works well when there's an assumption of people generally playing fair (call it iterated prisoners dilemma if you like) and I don't think this is the case any more. People and companies alike are now out to exploit as much as they can and get out, and capitalism does not handle that well, as we are seeing. I'm also very strongly persuaded by David Graeber's classic on bullshit jobs[1]. See also "UBI is Capitalism 2.0"[2]. I think people who see it this way are a growing group. [1] https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs [2] https://timjrobinson.com/universal-basic-income-is-capitalism-2-0/ https://timjrobinson.com/universal-basic-income-is-capitalis...

mariusor 6y ago
> I consider myself right-wing Please forgive me if what I'm about to say will sound patronizing, but I'm wondering if this is really what you mean to say. On the anglophone Internet it has a pretty well established meaning, which is not something that people are usually willing to admit in public. If you mean it in a strictly economical left-right scale, you probably can find a better way to express that.
- llimos 6y ago
  Thanks for the advice. I'm not American so maybe these things have different meanings there. You can read it as 'conservative' if that is better. I was contrasting to the article, which started out quoting a 'group of leftwing politicians and union officials from across Europe.' As far as I know, in the UK at least people don't have a problem identifying as right-wing (except on Twitter, obvs)
  - matt-attack 6y ago
    As an American I didn’t find it shocking or odd. I took it to just mean “conservative”.
  - mariusor 6y ago

herbst 6y ago

Its kinda normal in Switzerland to work 4 day weeks or less. Working 32 hours instead of 40 (which was necessary in my initial education) really felt like a life changer. I could get so much done on that additional weekday and was able to fully enjoy my weekend

esel2k 6y ago
I disagree and I live in Switzerland and we tend to be a 40h week hard working country (not long ago 42,5h was the norm). Compare that to our neighbors and we are way about the average. Together with Iceland we have the most hours, so I think you might be wrong. Maybe education is different... Source: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/greeks-work-longest-hours-in-europe/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/greeks-work-longest-h...
- herbst 6y ago
  This for sure is true, but that does not change the fact that we have a system for “part time work“ that is far easier than for example in germany or austria. In my social circle the majority works 80%. Something that is normal and possible here and unheard of in austria

sradman 6y ago

> Shah was one of the pioneers of the perk in the UK. He started giving staff Wednesdays off This applies to salaried employees and I think agreeing on which specific day to take off is non-trivial. The standardized weekend is about coordination across society. The same principle applies to public holidays. Selecting Monday, Wednesday, or Friday for an additional day off has to apply across a region to benefit from the coordination effects. Even if you agree with a regional four-day work week I don’t think you will reach consensus on which day to take off.

noitpmeder 6y ago
Why have it be a certain day for everyone? I can see an eventuality where employees are given the freedom to choose which 4 days, which may even differ week-to-week.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]