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Posted something about this earlier in the day but didn't gain any traction. I think this is one of the most important things of the year along with the corona

Posted something about this earlier in the day but didn't gain any traction. I think this is one of the most important things of the year along with the corona virus, might signal the end of US economy superiority? A note is many US alies, Aus, Japan, SK have signed up with this

mochialex 6y ago
Many years later, as he knelt before Emperor Xi, Donald Trump Jr. was to remember that distant afternoon when his father had a chance to form TPP, the everyone but China trade agreement.
hangonhn 6y ago
I was shocked by that. Does anyone who knows more about this or foreign policy in general want to enlighten us? What motivated Australia, Japan, and SK to sign on to this? Do they not fear alienating the US? I suppose once we scuttled the TPP they had no alternatives?
- zzleeper 6y ago
  Exactly. If they don't sign, they get left out. And then what? wait until the US somehow decides to join and only then join?
  - rangibaby 6y ago
    It’s good leverage for all the parties involved. For example, they can make another TPP with the US but on more advantageous terms
- smhost 6y ago
  https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10137.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10137.html
- plugger 6y ago
  > What motivated Australia, Japan, and SK to sign on to this? Most likely the fact that the US becoming more isolationist forces traditional allies to enter into agreements that they wouldn't have considered previously. In this instance, this is the first trade agreement that has had China, Japan, and South Korea as signatories. Also, despite their posturing China is a HUGE economic power and everyone in the region would prefer to ride that wave instead of be crushed by it. > Do they not fear alienating the US? To a certain extent the US has alienated the rest of the world with it's "America first" Trump policy. This is just the logical progression of countries moving on to fill the economic power gap the US has left in the Pacific. > I suppose once we scuttled the TPP they had no alternatives? Lol. Everyone else went onto sign the CPTTP which went into effect 30 Dec 2018 which was largely identical to the original TTP, excluding the inclusion of the US of course.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- sanxiyn 6y ago
  South Korean here. To me, RCEP seemed like an obviously good thing to sign, and I am shocked that people in US are shocked or that they think SK should fear alienating US. TPP is irrelevant since SK was never a party to TPP.
  - damnencryption 6y ago
    What do you think about the IP parts of RCEP?
    - sanxiyn 6y ago
      I find it unfortunate, but I recognize that as a newly minted culture exporting nation South Korea at large is in favor of stronger copyright enforcement, and that my personal opinion that copyright is currently too strong and detrimental to culture holds little sway.
- NonEUCitizen 6y ago
  Australia, Japan, and SK are sovereign nations.
  - hangonhn 6y ago
    Totally agree. I'm not passing any judgments on what they did. It's just that in other areas of policy, they've been apprehensive about China so I'm shocked to see this. They must have had good reasons for doing this so I want to better understand their perspective on this and how that ties into those countries' strategy for managing an emerging superpower that rivals their traditional ally.
    - sanxiyn 6y ago
      South Korea is a trading nation, and is in favor of free trade. South Korea defaults to yes for trade deals. US is an ally, but if US is against free trade, South Korea will not go with US. Unlike US, international trade is of vital importance to South Korea.
      - j8hn 6y ago
        Doesn't the US have a free trade agreement with Korea?
        sanxiyn 6y ago
        It does.
      - j8hn 6y ago
        Judging by the numbers I would say international trade is of vital importance to the US.
        sanxiyn 6y ago
        US trade to GDP ratio is <30%. For South Korea, it's >70%.
    - 6y ago
- karmasimida 6y ago
  > What motivated Australia, Japan, and SK to sign on to this Money apparently. China will lift its tariff against 90% of imports from Japan, increasing from 8% currently. Also Japan and Korea would have similar tariff treatment between each other. South Korea and China already had their own FTA, so it won't matter that much, but has no negative impact either.
  - canada2us 6y ago
    Exactly, Japan actually benefits more.
- bigger_cheese 6y ago
  For Australia it's our Raw Materials (Iron Ore, Coal that sort of stuff) and Natural Gas. China, Japan, Korea are huge trading partners. Education is the other big item, Australian universities attract a lot of foreign students and that sector is a big money earner. On the radio this morning there was talk about standardizing qualifications making more Australian degrees recognized in member countries. It comes along at a pretty interesting time there are a lot of tension between China and Australia at the moment. There's handwringing locally over China being granted 99 year ownership leases on some of our ports. Chinese telecom firm Huawei was blocked from our 5G network for "National security" etc. China has been threatening to block (and in some cases have blocked) shipments of Australian products there have been tariffs on Australian Barley implemented etc, ostensibly in retaliation to some foreign affair stuff. Australia called for an international enquiry into origins of Covid which really annoyed China.
  - hangonhn 6y ago
    > Education is the other big item, Australian universities attract a lot of foreign students and that sector is a big money earner. On the radio this morning there was talk about standardizing qualifications making more Australian degrees recognized in member countries. This is so fascinating! I knew Australia hosts a lot of Chinese students but they're really on their way to making education an export of theirs. Thanks for the perspective. I'm beginning to see the huge potentials of this treaty for the parties involved.
    - plugger 6y ago
      IIRC education is Australia's 3rd largest export.
      - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
        Part of the education deal is access to short or long term migration to Australia, so the dollar figure really a combination of education, lifestyle and migration opportunities.
jonathannat 6y ago
It will be useless, since ALL countries in RCEP want to run current account surplus and no one really want the role to absorb surpluses, i.e running current account deficit and ditch capital control and let their currency float. For this to even work, someone has to run current account deficit and runs capital account surplus (play the role of the US). No one is willing to lol. NY times actually summarizes it pretty well: It has little impact on legal work, accounting or other services that cross borders, and does not venture far into the often-divisive issue of ensuring greater intellectual property protections https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/business/china-trade-rcep.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/business/china-trade-rcep...
- scoot 6y ago
  "No one is willing to lol." No one is willing to laugh out loud. I don't know what that means?
  - radley 6y ago
    > No one is willing to lol No one is willing to do it. Ha ha ha.
  - cinquemb 6y ago
    No one is willing to run a current account deficit. I'm assuming the "lol" is mocking RCEP overall. One thing is for sure, as an US expat in SEA, china is #1 economically in the region as far as investing, not because they are any good, but lack of will from US investors in large… and in this environment, I'm not so sure getting in now is best because the lack of high quality collateral available to back investments if things go south (or get hold up for years like they have with projects…) I'm more interested in to see if this will translate to more offshore usage of the chy, and offshore chy loans… if not, things will remain status quo (boondoggles)…
  - alphachloride 6y ago
    Found the A"I" lol I believe it's supposed to be "No one is willing to, lol". In this case "lol" is describing what the writer is feeling about this statement, not what the objects of his writing are doing. The confusion is due to the missing ",". However, it can be surmised that the omission was for brevity or by accident, and not intentionally to convey a meaning which would otherwise be inconsistent with the preceding sentences.
square_square 6y ago
The only thing matters here is the trade deal between Japan and China.
canada2us 6y ago
> Posted something about this earlier in the day but didn't gain any traction. AFAIK, hacker new is moderated and only 1 article about a topic can show up on the front page.

mochialex 6y ago

Many years later, as he knelt before Emperor Xi, Donald Trump Jr. was to remember that distant afternoon when his father had a chance to form TPP, the everyone but China trade agreement.

hangonhn 6y ago

I was shocked by that. Does anyone who knows more about this or foreign policy in general want to enlighten us? What motivated Australia, Japan, and SK to sign on to this? Do they not fear alienating the US? I suppose once we scuttled the TPP they had no alternatives?

zzleeper 6y ago
Exactly. If they don't sign, they get left out. And then what? wait until the US somehow decides to join and only then join?
- rangibaby 6y ago
  It’s good leverage for all the parties involved. For example, they can make another TPP with the US but on more advantageous terms
smhost 6y ago
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10137.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10137.html
plugger 6y ago
> What motivated Australia, Japan, and SK to sign on to this? Most likely the fact that the US becoming more isolationist forces traditional allies to enter into agreements that they wouldn't have considered previously. In this instance, this is the first trade agreement that has had China, Japan, and South Korea as signatories. Also, despite their posturing China is a HUGE economic power and everyone in the region would prefer to ride that wave instead of be crushed by it. > Do they not fear alienating the US? To a certain extent the US has alienated the rest of the world with it's "America first" Trump policy. This is just the logical progression of countries moving on to fill the economic power gap the US has left in the Pacific. > I suppose once we scuttled the TPP they had no alternatives? Lol. Everyone else went onto sign the CPTTP which went into effect 30 Dec 2018 which was largely identical to the original TTP, excluding the inclusion of the US of course.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sanxiyn 6y ago
South Korean here. To me, RCEP seemed like an obviously good thing to sign, and I am shocked that people in US are shocked or that they think SK should fear alienating US. TPP is irrelevant since SK was never a party to TPP.
- damnencryption 6y ago
  What do you think about the IP parts of RCEP?
  - sanxiyn 6y ago
    I find it unfortunate, but I recognize that as a newly minted culture exporting nation South Korea at large is in favor of stronger copyright enforcement, and that my personal opinion that copyright is currently too strong and detrimental to culture holds little sway.
NonEUCitizen 6y ago
Australia, Japan, and SK are sovereign nations.
- hangonhn 6y ago
  Totally agree. I'm not passing any judgments on what they did. It's just that in other areas of policy, they've been apprehensive about China so I'm shocked to see this. They must have had good reasons for doing this so I want to better understand their perspective on this and how that ties into those countries' strategy for managing an emerging superpower that rivals their traditional ally.
  - sanxiyn 6y ago
    South Korea is a trading nation, and is in favor of free trade. South Korea defaults to yes for trade deals. US is an ally, but if US is against free trade, South Korea will not go with US. Unlike US, international trade is of vital importance to South Korea.
    - j8hn 6y ago
      Doesn't the US have a free trade agreement with Korea?
      - sanxiyn 6y ago
        It does.
    - j8hn 6y ago
      Judging by the numbers I would say international trade is of vital importance to the US.
      - sanxiyn 6y ago
        US trade to GDP ratio is <30%. For South Korea, it's >70%.
  - 6y ago
karmasimida 6y ago
> What motivated Australia, Japan, and SK to sign on to this Money apparently. China will lift its tariff against 90% of imports from Japan, increasing from 8% currently. Also Japan and Korea would have similar tariff treatment between each other. South Korea and China already had their own FTA, so it won't matter that much, but has no negative impact either.
- canada2us 6y ago
  Exactly, Japan actually benefits more.
bigger_cheese 6y ago
For Australia it's our Raw Materials (Iron Ore, Coal that sort of stuff) and Natural Gas. China, Japan, Korea are huge trading partners. Education is the other big item, Australian universities attract a lot of foreign students and that sector is a big money earner. On the radio this morning there was talk about standardizing qualifications making more Australian degrees recognized in member countries. It comes along at a pretty interesting time there are a lot of tension between China and Australia at the moment. There's handwringing locally over China being granted 99 year ownership leases on some of our ports. Chinese telecom firm Huawei was blocked from our 5G network for "National security" etc. China has been threatening to block (and in some cases have blocked) shipments of Australian products there have been tariffs on Australian Barley implemented etc, ostensibly in retaliation to some foreign affair stuff. Australia called for an international enquiry into origins of Covid which really annoyed China.
- hangonhn 6y ago
  > Education is the other big item, Australian universities attract a lot of foreign students and that sector is a big money earner. On the radio this morning there was talk about standardizing qualifications making more Australian degrees recognized in member countries. This is so fascinating! I knew Australia hosts a lot of Chinese students but they're really on their way to making education an export of theirs. Thanks for the perspective. I'm beginning to see the huge potentials of this treaty for the parties involved.
  - plugger 6y ago
    IIRC education is Australia's 3rd largest export.
    - hackerfromthefu 6y ago
      Part of the education deal is access to short or long term migration to Australia, so the dollar figure really a combination of education, lifestyle and migration opportunities.

jonathannat 6y ago

It will be useless, since ALL countries in RCEP want to run current account surplus and no one really want the role to absorb surpluses, i.e running current account deficit and ditch capital control and let their currency float. For this to even work, someone has to run current account deficit and runs capital account surplus (play the role of the US). No one is willing to lol. NY times actually summarizes it pretty well: It has little impact on legal work, accounting or other services that cross borders, and does not venture far into the often-divisive issue of ensuring greater intellectual property protections https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/business/china-trade-rcep.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/business/china-trade-rcep...

scoot 6y ago
"No one is willing to lol." No one is willing to laugh out loud. I don't know what that means?
- radley 6y ago
  > No one is willing to lol No one is willing to do it. Ha ha ha.
- cinquemb 6y ago
  No one is willing to run a current account deficit. I'm assuming the "lol" is mocking RCEP overall. One thing is for sure, as an US expat in SEA, china is #1 economically in the region as far as investing, not because they are any good, but lack of will from US investors in large… and in this environment, I'm not so sure getting in now is best because the lack of high quality collateral available to back investments if things go south (or get hold up for years like they have with projects…) I'm more interested in to see if this will translate to more offshore usage of the chy, and offshore chy loans… if not, things will remain status quo (boondoggles)…
- alphachloride 6y ago
  Found the A"I" lol I believe it's supposed to be "No one is willing to, lol". In this case "lol" is describing what the writer is feeling about this statement, not what the objects of his writing are doing. The confusion is due to the missing ",". However, it can be surmised that the omission was for brevity or by accident, and not intentionally to convey a meaning which would otherwise be inconsistent with the preceding sentences.

square_square 6y ago

The only thing matters here is the trade deal between Japan and China.

canada2us 6y ago

> Posted something about this earlier in the day but didn't gain any traction. AFAIK, hacker new is moderated and only 1 article about a topic can show up on the front page.