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Read the above comment about how locals would refuse to patronize a restaurant staffed by a Romani worker. If you're living in an environment where people go ou

Read the above comment about how locals would refuse to patronize a restaurant staffed by a Romani worker. If you're living in an environment where people go out of their way to make sure you don't have any economic opportunity no matter what you do, what the hell is the point of preparing your children for a workforce that is guaranteed to reject them? To try and gain respectability among people who are steadfastly committed to never respecting them, because some day the dominant culture might decide the underlings are actually human beings? Why should they be disinclined to steal or beg from people who guarantee their entire community will continue to fail?

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
Yes, you put your finger on it. I think the central issue really is a chicken-and-egg issue: the people who live around them put causal force on the Roma's anti-social behavior, the Roma put it on their rejection / exclusion by the people around them (or maybe they don't?). Nobody wins until somebody backs down. Whoever backs down pays costs. If the surrounding people back down and start treating the Roma well, the Roma will take advantage of them for a while. If the Roma back down and start behaving the way the surrounding people want them to, they won't get full credit for their efforts for a while. Maybe there's some way to broker a detente. Maybe that's already happening.
- reducesuffering 6y ago
  Hmm, who better to bare the brunt of "backing down?" The wealthier group, or the group that if they did would starve and suffer in more squalor conditions than they already are? And for an unknown period of time, could be decades?
- chefandy 6y ago
  Your premise is based on the assumption of something approaching power equity. The Roma have zero clout in this situation— they can only, primarily, affect their own circumstances, and considering that people are intentionally blocking their access to the economy, they can't even do that very effectively. This isn't two equal weights pushing against each other, it's one sitting on top of the other and blaming them for the fact that they're being sat on.
nickpp 6y ago
That comment is simply false. Nobody cares where the restaurant workers are coming from. They do care if they respect hygienic standards so cleanliness and integration do matter - race does not.
- chefandy 6y ago
  As someone who worked in bars, restaurants and nightclubs for much of my adult life, I can absolutely assure you that racism of various flavors exists in every restaurant scene on the planet. To believe otherwise is painfully naive. Perhaps willfully ignorant.
deleted 6y ago
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NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago

Yes, you put your finger on it. I think the central issue really is a chicken-and-egg issue: the people who live around them put causal force on the Roma's anti-social behavior, the Roma put it on their rejection / exclusion by the people around them (or maybe they don't?). Nobody wins until somebody backs down. Whoever backs down pays costs. If the surrounding people back down and start treating the Roma well, the Roma will take advantage of them for a while. If the Roma back down and start behaving the way the surrounding people want them to, they won't get full credit for their efforts for a while. Maybe there's some way to broker a detente. Maybe that's already happening.

reducesuffering 6y ago
Hmm, who better to bare the brunt of "backing down?" The wealthier group, or the group that if they did would starve and suffer in more squalor conditions than they already are? And for an unknown period of time, could be decades?
chefandy 6y ago
Your premise is based on the assumption of something approaching power equity. The Roma have zero clout in this situation— they can only, primarily, affect their own circumstances, and considering that people are intentionally blocking their access to the economy, they can't even do that very effectively. This isn't two equal weights pushing against each other, it's one sitting on top of the other and blaming them for the fact that they're being sat on.

nickpp 6y ago

That comment is simply false. Nobody cares where the restaurant workers are coming from. They do care if they respect hygienic standards so cleanliness and integration do matter - race does not.

chefandy 6y ago
As someone who worked in bars, restaurants and nightclubs for much of my adult life, I can absolutely assure you that racism of various flavors exists in every restaurant scene on the planet. To believe otherwise is painfully naive. Perhaps willfully ignorant.

deleted 6y ago

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