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Why do you need web apps wrapped in their own window, though? Just open a browser. Relatedly, Electron is a problem because desktop apps nowadays require a hug

Why do you need web apps wrapped in their own window, though? Just open a browser. Relatedly, Electron is a problem because desktop apps nowadays require a huge browser just to display a window, not because web apps are packaged in a browser to get slightly better desktop integration.

ben-schaaf 6y ago
Unfortunately you have things like Discord that require access to native APIs in order to properly function (eg. Push to talk).
fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
I like Slack and similar having their own icon and entry in the alt-tab switcher. Absent ubiquitous PWA support, electron is sort of the least bad alternative.
- StavrosK 6y ago
  Ah, fair point. Electron is a good fit for web apps that would otherwise live in a browser, I agree.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  Sounds like there is an opportunity for someone to provide a way to display an icon in the window manager that saves a gigabyte of RAM. :D
  - keithnz 6y ago
    ironically, windows just included this for Edge, you can alt tab between browser windows and you can put websites as taskbar apps ( and will also jump to all windows of the app easily as well)
  - fctorial 6y ago
    Chrome apps?
    - est31 6y ago
      .lnk files. Or on Linux, .desktop files. Can contain an URL. You click it, a browser opens. The tech is decades old at this point.
      - mixmastamyk 6y ago
        I believe he meant an icon for the running window, not one on the desktop or menu.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  You can kind of do this with Chrome for any website. More tools->create shortcut in the menu.
  - crazyjncsu 6y ago
    We’ve used this for years as our answer to users who request a desktop app. They’re generally pleasantly surprised and satisfied with the result.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Yeah, my experience is that these behave in unusual ways: it’s ok, but they always feel a bit off, even compared to Electron
    - aeyes 6y ago
      You have to design your site for this, back in the IE days we did this for some corporate tools and went full kiosk mode. The user didn't even know that it was a website.
mikeryan 6y ago
File system access? Ability to Play a Video stream without a user click? Access to non-CORS enabled APIs if needed?
- est31 6y ago
  Most apps don't need that feature. In fact, the apps which insist on electron experience often misuse it. Think of the zoom daemon that remained on mac desktops even if you uninstalled zoom.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Every time I click a zoom link these days on macOS, I get really annoyed that I have to click again to get into the video call: the security issue was unfortunate, but (for me) Zoom was absolutely right about the UX.
  - eptcyka 6y ago
    Zoom has nothing to do with electron
- pjmlp 6y ago
  All of them doable with daemon applications, plus file system access APIs are already available.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
im3w1l 6y ago
Electron app: works offline has more permissions can use udp separate alt-tab, tray display is not throttled because it's in the background (on desktop) unaffected by browser settings unaffected by clear cookies unaffected by extensions less confusion over who handles keybinds
- jamesgeck0 6y ago
  Web apps have been able to work offline for like a decade now, iirc.
  - danShumway 6y ago
    Not well. I'm optimistic about the web in general, but I consider good, reliable clientside storage to still be an unsolved problem, at least for the moment. Some of the things we're still missing: - the ability to easily share data between domains without opening yourself up to massive security risks. - the ability to share data with native apps. - the ability to move data between browsers without syncing it to an online account. - the ability for normal users to inspect offline data. - the ability to trust that browsers like Safari won't just arbitrarily delete your data one day.[0] - the ability to trust that browser upgrades won't ever corrupt the data you have stored.[1] - the ability to share large amounts of data without worrying about storage limits (this matters a lot if you're making an editor like Atom or Visual Studio). Typically, what I see with offline apps is that they'll use offline storage, but they don't trust it. They use it when possible as a progressive enhancement, but then they have to sync that data to a server someplace if it's something that users actually care about. And that matches my experiences as a web developer as well. I can't imagine building something like a password manager or text editor in-browser that was only storing data locally, I wouldn't trust that. It's also not just a technological problem, it's a problem of UX. If I tried to make a purely offline web app, I'd be getting angry customer calls in a week asking where their data went just from them clearing browser history and not realizing that it deleted all their data as well. There isn't a user-friendly, user-controlled way to indicate that storage for one website should be permanent, and users aren't really trained to think that way about the web anyway -- their instinct is to think of it as transient. ---- [0]: https://ar.al/2020/03/25/apple-just-killed-offline-web-apps-while-purporting-to-protect-your-privacy-why-thats-a-bad-thing-and-why-you-should-care/ https://ar.al/2020/03/25/apple-just-killed-offline-web-apps-... [1]: https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/12/17/google-fixes-chrome-bug-that-broke-local-storage-for-some-web-and-android-apps-no-data-is-lost/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/12/17/google-fixes-chrome...

ben-schaaf 6y ago

Unfortunately you have things like Discord that require access to native APIs in order to properly function (eg. Push to talk).

fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago

I like Slack and similar having their own icon and entry in the alt-tab switcher. Absent ubiquitous PWA support, electron is sort of the least bad alternative.

StavrosK 6y ago
Ah, fair point. Electron is a good fit for web apps that would otherwise live in a browser, I agree.
mixmastamyk 6y ago
Sounds like there is an opportunity for someone to provide a way to display an icon in the window manager that saves a gigabyte of RAM. :D
- keithnz 6y ago
  ironically, windows just included this for Edge, you can alt tab between browser windows and you can put websites as taskbar apps ( and will also jump to all windows of the app easily as well)
- fctorial 6y ago
  Chrome apps?
  - est31 6y ago
    .lnk files. Or on Linux, .desktop files. Can contain an URL. You click it, a browser opens. The tech is decades old at this point.
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      I believe he meant an icon for the running window, not one on the desktop or menu.
ubercow13 6y ago
You can kind of do this with Chrome for any website. More tools->create shortcut in the menu.
- crazyjncsu 6y ago
  We’ve used this for years as our answer to users who request a desktop app. They’re generally pleasantly surprised and satisfied with the result.
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Yeah, my experience is that these behave in unusual ways: it’s ok, but they always feel a bit off, even compared to Electron
  - aeyes 6y ago
    You have to design your site for this, back in the IE days we did this for some corporate tools and went full kiosk mode. The user didn't even know that it was a website.

mikeryan 6y ago

File system access? Ability to Play a Video stream without a user click? Access to non-CORS enabled APIs if needed?

est31 6y ago
Most apps don't need that feature. In fact, the apps which insist on electron experience often misuse it. Think of the zoom daemon that remained on mac desktops even if you uninstalled zoom.
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  Every time I click a zoom link these days on macOS, I get really annoyed that I have to click again to get into the video call: the security issue was unfortunate, but (for me) Zoom was absolutely right about the UX.
- eptcyka 6y ago
  Zoom has nothing to do with electron
pjmlp 6y ago
All of them doable with daemon applications, plus file system access APIs are already available.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

im3w1l 6y ago

Electron app: works offline has more permissions can use udp separate alt-tab, tray display is not throttled because it's in the background (on desktop) unaffected by browser settings unaffected by clear cookies unaffected by extensions less confusion over who handles keybinds

jamesgeck0 6y ago
Web apps have been able to work offline for like a decade now, iirc.
- danShumway 6y ago
  Not well. I'm optimistic about the web in general, but I consider good, reliable clientside storage to still be an unsolved problem, at least for the moment. Some of the things we're still missing: - the ability to easily share data between domains without opening yourself up to massive security risks. - the ability to share data with native apps. - the ability to move data between browsers without syncing it to an online account. - the ability for normal users to inspect offline data. - the ability to trust that browsers like Safari won't just arbitrarily delete your data one day.[0] - the ability to trust that browser upgrades won't ever corrupt the data you have stored.[1] - the ability to share large amounts of data without worrying about storage limits (this matters a lot if you're making an editor like Atom or Visual Studio). Typically, what I see with offline apps is that they'll use offline storage, but they don't trust it. They use it when possible as a progressive enhancement, but then they have to sync that data to a server someplace if it's something that users actually care about. And that matches my experiences as a web developer as well. I can't imagine building something like a password manager or text editor in-browser that was only storing data locally, I wouldn't trust that. It's also not just a technological problem, it's a problem of UX. If I tried to make a purely offline web app, I'd be getting angry customer calls in a week asking where their data went just from them clearing browser history and not realizing that it deleted all their data as well. There isn't a user-friendly, user-controlled way to indicate that storage for one website should be permanent, and users aren't really trained to think that way about the web anyway -- their instinct is to think of it as transient. ---- [0]: https://ar.al/2020/03/25/apple-just-killed-offline-web-apps-while-purporting-to-protect-your-privacy-why-thats-a-bad-thing-and-why-you-should-care/ https://ar.al/2020/03/25/apple-just-killed-offline-web-apps-... [1]: https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/12/17/google-fixes-chrome-bug-that-broke-local-storage-for-some-web-and-android-apps-no-data-is-lost/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/12/17/google-fixes-chrome...